R.I.P. General Motors (1931-2006)

[Collector]

Does that mean it will be OK to buy Toyotas that are made in China.
Surely you don't think Toyotas will still continue assemble their cars in
the US of imported parts when the can make them so much cheaper in China
with those same parts do you.

....damn fine point...cheaper to send the parts to china...than in USA...
then consumers are charged premium sticker prices...

....**** all that air-pollution devices they stuff upon the
autos...ethenol is the answer...put all the US farmers
back to producing (so we wouldn't have to buy a fucking
orange from across the continent)...ethenol is clean
burning...sure they can adjust the carboration system
to accomodate the fuel...and maybe even get cheaper
booze...

....now...don't get me wrong...the japs build fine autos...
i have '94 toyota 4cyl. pick-up....93k miles...and it ain't
even 'broken-in' yet...

....think GM can produce that??...FORD is close...CHRYSLER
is still up in the air...maybe revive the Delorean??...289 Mustang,
327 Camero/Firebird...shit 'merican auto maufacturers have
just about completely fucked it all up...

....i feel it will come to a point where peeps are gonna grab old 60's
early 70's muscle cars and restrore them (well, as much as
possible)...

....i am beginning to see more and more 50 year old VW bugs on
the road...owned 2...trashed..but those fuckers ran like the wind...

peace

 

[Grumpy AuContraire]

I should have stated the expression clearer. In each case (barring
one), the company only dabbled in bankruptcy to return intact.
Employees (many) still had their jobs. In the one rare case where a
company went into bankruptcy and little came out - Enron - the
condition was due to extraordinary flagrant fraud. One example among
thousands means, for all practical purposes, the number of complete
bankruptcy is near zero. Either a company recovers intact (although
changed) OR a company is consumed by another or others.

The point is that GM will remain. Will it remain like AT&T -
constantly downsized and destroying American jobs? Will it
disintegrate by selling off its divisions like DEC? Will it simply be
merged into another profitable company like Lucent? In each case,
bankruptcy only forces management to act in company interests - not in
executive interests.

News Flash!!!

The original AT&T is no longer. It (the unprofitable remains) were
purchased by SBC which then changed its name to the "new" at&t. SBC, a
former baby Bell was worth far more than the original AT&T...

Large companies don't terminate in bankruptcy. They get merged,
sold, distributed among other companies, or revised. Contrarian
examples are so rare as to be virtually zero. GM will remain. The
only question is HOW it will remain. In GM's case, because so many
previously attempted to sell off parts of GM and discovered that was
not possible, then most likely GM will simply be reorganized. Taxpayer
will pay for those $billions that GM failed to put into pension funds
so that management would claim 1990s profits that never really existed.
Another example of corporate welfare complete with golden parachutes
for those who were criminally negligent as executives.

Really?

Evidently you have forgotten about Eastern Airlines, Pan Am, W.T. Grant
and a host of others.

Nice try but no cigar!

JT

 

[Mike Hunter]

AT&T does indeed still exist.

 

[Cool Jet]

Sigvaldi Eggertsson (sigvaldiATbinetDOTis)
from Reykjavik, Iceland

Well, it is hardly his fault that you are linguistically challenged, is
it?

Nor is it his fault that you are follically challenged and suffering
from penis envy. Having said that, you are to be commended for coming
to the realization that the language spoken in Iceland has changed very
little since the island was settled, some 11 centuries ago. Icelandic
and Faroese are the only Scandinavian languages to have kept the
complicated inflection system of the Old Norse spoken during the Viking
age. Not exactly the language of International Commerce, is it Mr.
Eggertson? While there are many in Iceland who speak the Swedish
language, most, like yourself, have come to the realization that you
have to speak English to put food on the table. Well done Mr.
Eggertsson.

It is nice to see that you have broadened your horizons by moving on
from your discussion of the Christmas grouse shortage on Iceland
wherein you told the world that you "always thought the bird was called
"Ptarmigan" not Grouse."

Then, of course, there was your informative post "Well, Iceland is
south of the arctic circle so it gets dark in the summer and there is
light in the winter. Your description fits North Norway and Northern
Canada etc. far better."

It was also interesting to find Anagrams of names of posters to one of
the groups you belong to:
"Sigvaldi Eggertsson = Voltage singes grids.
Even if so, it's not clear whether he's actually evil:
(e-mail address removed)~'s big devil? Saint?
All the same, I don't know if I'd want to spend an evening with him:
Sigvaldi Eggertsson ~ digs revolting gases."

Now that was some intellectual group Sigvaldi! You seem to excel as a
master of the mundane. Your knowledge of obscure trivia is exceeded
only by my lack of interest in such nonsense.

The world is indeed a small place Mr. Eggertsson. You would undoubtedly
enjoy it more by availing yourself of a hair impant and a penile
implant from your pet cat. ;-) And leave the serious discussions to
those who haven't spent their life in the dark!

 

[John Horner]

I should have stated the expression clearer. In each case (barring
one), the company only dabbled in bankruptcy to return intact.
Employees (many) still had their jobs. In the one rare case where a
company went into bankruptcy and little came out - Enron - the
condition was due to extraordinary flagrant fraud. One example among
thousands means, for all practical purposes, the number of complete
bankruptcy is near zero. Either a company recovers intact (although
changed) OR a company is consumed by another or others.

The point is that GM will remain. Will it remain like AT&T -
constantly downsized and destroying American jobs? Will it
disintegrate by selling off its divisions like DEC? Will it simply be
merged into another profitable company like Lucent? In each case,
bankruptcy only forces management to act in company interests - not in
executive interests.

Large companies don't terminate in bankruptcy. They get merged,
sold, distributed among other companies, or revised. Contrarian
examples are so rare as to be virtually zero.

It is also instructive to look at the history of the British motor
industry, once a powerhouse, and now essentially gone except for
transplants. Quality issues, management mistakes and agressive unions
all joined forces to completely eliminate British owned auto makers from
the face of the planet (unless you count boutiques like Morgan).

John

 

[John Horner]

AT&T does indeed still exist.

If you are saying that GM circa 2016 will still exist in the same way as
which AT&T still exists in 2006 then you might be on to something.

SBC bought the struggling remains of AT&T and chose to rename itself
AT&T due to the higher consumer brand recognition for the AT&T name.

John

 

[sigvald]

Wow, so you can both read and use Google, that is astonishing!

 

[Jason]

If you are saying that GM circa 2016 will still exist in the same way as
which AT&T still exists in 2006 then you might be on to something.

SBC bought the struggling remains of AT&T and chose to rename itself
AT&T due to the higher consumer brand recognition for the AT&T name.

John

John,
One of the Japanese car companies might buy the stuggling remains of GM
and keep making the best selling models--however, those cars will have the
same sorts of engines that they use in their Japanese cars. In other
words, the same sort of thing that happened to Chrysler MAY happen to GM.
However, for the sake of the American workers--I hope that GM does NOT go
out of business.
Jason

 

[Bob Palmer]

I do beleive that GM and Ford does a great job in

regard to making full sized pick-up trucks. I have yet to meet anyone
that complained about the quality of their full sized GM and Ford
pick-up trucks.
Jason

I don't really see a trend towards GM and Ford making better pickups. They
make their vehicles bigger and heavier with larger, more thirstier engines
to tweak male egos. The large amount of sales of these vehicles reflects
mainly the fleet sales. Everyone I know that owns GM, Ford or Dodge pickups
have had some major problems. Not to mention the side-saddle gas tanks for
GM, the poor rating of the previous generation of Ford F150 in crash tests,
the 8 MPG Dodge pickups and the crushing of the cabs in rollover crashes of
all three. Lawsuits from the latter are adding to the price of their
product.

 

[Howard Nelson]

If you are saying that GM circa 2016 will still exist in the same way as
which AT&T still exists in 2006 then you might be on to something.

SBC bought the struggling remains of AT&T and chose to rename itself
AT&T due to the higher consumer brand recognition for the AT&T name.

John

The last thing you would buy GM for is the name and reputation

Howard

 

[Jason]

The last thing you would buy GM for is the name and reputation

Howard

Howard,
Great post. Do you know whether or not GM places engines made in Japan in
some of their vehicles? I once purchased a mini-pick up (RAM 50) with the
word DODGE written on the outside of it. However, it had an engine that
had the word MITSUBISDHI written on top of the engine. Does GM do this
same sort of thing?
Jason

 

[R Sweeney]

True, but the nuclear power plants' electricity is already taken up
powering computers, lights, A/C, etc.

Besides, nuclear power is not renewable.

Jeff

nor is the sun renewable

I was speaking of building more nuclear plants and having them charge cars
on the grid overnight.

 

[Gordon McGrew]

If you are saying that GM circa 2016 will still exist in the same way as
which AT&T still exists in 2006 then you might be on to something.

SBC bought the struggling remains of AT&T and chose to rename itself
AT&T due to the higher consumer brand recognition for the AT&T name.

Which is an interesting lesson in itself. AT&T marketing was
obviously more effective than the overall corporation. My guess is
that they spent a lot of money to build up the name AT&T. In the end,
it was the only part that was worth anything.

I had a problem with AT&T service (caused by their bungling) and the
phone rep was totally worthless. It soon became clear that the only
way to resolve the problem was to cancel my service.

 

[Gordon McGrew]

Howard,
Great post. Do you know whether or not GM places engines made in Japan in
some of their vehicles? I once purchased a mini-pick up (RAM 50) with the
word DODGE written on the outside of it. However, it had an engine that
had the word MITSUBISDHI written on top of the engine. Does GM do this

LOL I think Mitsubisdhi is an Indian manufacturer.

 

[w_tom]

AT&T still exists. Its long distance and some other operations exist
under SBC management (who also took on the AT&T name). Its cell phone
business now exists as part of Cingular. Its two cable companies ...
lost track of who has all that now. Its NCR division now operates
profitably.

Eastern Airlines and Pan Am became part of ... again I forgot who
took them over. TWA - did that become part of American? TWA's St
Louis hub - did that become an American Airlines hub? So yes, if a
company is only its management, then you are right - none of them
exist. But those companies still exist as part of other companies -
and that is my point. Why are those operations successful again?
Because the only reason for failure - bad management - was replaced.
Look at GM to discover a same problem.

Most every large company does not just go bust. Its core operations
are removed from bad management. Sometimes those operations get a new
name. But those businesses continue. New management often must
restructure those operations because bad management had created bad
organizations and stifled employees. The point remains - GM will not
vaporize. It may reorganize. It may be purchased. It may be broken
up and distributed to other companies that have management with brains
instead of egos. Major companies do not vaporize. They get new
management to replace the only reason why companies such as GM, AT&T,
Eastern Airlines. PanAm, etc were failing.

Graduates of business schools don't like to admit this because they
are so often the reason for failure. When management does not come
from where the work gets done, then innovation cannot happen. Business
school graduates assume that more investment make more innovation.
They assume innovation falls from the sky like rain. Simply make
clouds and rain will invariably happen. Bull.

Innovation requires capital. But too much capital can even destroy
innovation. It is not a bidirectional relationship as so many business
school graduates assume. Innovation requires investment. But
investment does not create innovation; a direct contradiction to what
is taught by business school simulations and spread sheet analysis.

GM's problem is their management - especially Rick Wagoner - a
classic example of business and law school thinking. Whatever saves GM
must first eliminate the reason why GM's large reservoir of talent has
been stifled for 30 years. Same thing that destroyed AT&T (and
Lucent), Eastern Airlines, Pan Am, etc was bad management. Those core
operations live on once bad management was replaced - vaporized.

 

[Collector]

I think about that often. I 1980, my teen years of driving, I was paying
1.25/gl.
However, has the medium income gone up since then. I heard reported that
the medium income in the U.S. has stayed pretty much level at around 55K
(+/-), while the medium cost of a house has quadrupled. The comparison is
in relation to cost of living. Not sure if the information was accurate,
but it makes me think about that... certainly my income is higher, but
then I buy gas and look for a larger home and seems like I'm still making
the same wage as back in my fries and burger daze... heh.

....shiit...i still remember when a gallon of regular was 32 cents...
had a 100cc yamaha motorcycle...me and my buds would
should the earth for returnable pop bottles...them was the daze...

 

[Eugene Nine]

Howard,
Great post. Do you know whether or not GM places engines made in Japan in
some of their vehicles? I once purchased a mini-pick up (RAM 50) with the
word DODGE written on the outside of it. However, it had an engine that
had the word MITSUBISDHI written on top of the engine. Does GM do this
same sort of thing?
Jason

I made that mistake too, was a minivan instead of a minitruck. I must have
spent every weekend replacing something on it. I had to trade it in twice,
first dealer gave it back to me, second one I tossed the salesman the keys
and left before he could get a good look at it.

 

[n5hsr]

News Flash!!!

The original AT&T is no longer. It (the unprofitable remains) were
purchased by SBC which then changed its name to the "new" at&t. SBC, a
former baby Bell was worth far more than the original AT&T...






Really?

Evidently you have forgotten about Eastern Airlines, Pan Am, W.T. Grant
and a host of others.

Nice try but no cigar!

JT

My dad worked for W. T. Grant shortly before I was born and predicted its
demise after he left their employ because of their overextending of credit.
Lo and behold, when I was 19 W. T. Grant went out of business because it had
overextended credit. . . . I predicted that eventually the corporate
attitudes of Kmart would cause it to fail in 1981. Well, where is Kmart
today?

Charles of Schaumburg

 

[n5hsr]

AT&T does indeed still exist.

No it doesn't. I just drove by one of their corporate centers on my way to
work this morning. The new "at&t" is basically the cremains of the old AT&T
after the technological revolution left them holding the bag with a lot of
old technology and the costs therefrom.

Charles of Schaumburg

 

[Grumpy AuContraire]

Uh, having a bit of trouble parsing a sentence, eh?

JT