R.I.P. General Motors (1931-2006)

[Guest]

Actually the Aveo is built by Suzuki in a Korean plant formally owned by
Daewoo. Why is it OK to buy a foreign car from a foreign company but not OK
to buy a foreign can from an American company? At least the American
company pay federal corporate income taxes on the profit earned

You are right there. GM's importing of foreign built products is a
reflection of their reaching the bottom.
Save the company, to hell with the local workers society.

 

[Jason]

Toyotas last so long they could get a good used one that better fits
their budget.
By the way I'm very saddened by this GM mess. I used to buy GM products
as did my family, but I left them in the 80s for better products from
Chrysler.
Now Chrysler is a "foreign" manufacturer as is Toyota.

I once owned a Chevy Monza and had lots of problems with that car.
It was the last GM car that I have ever owned. The last two cars
that I have purchased were Honda Accords. It's my guess that there
are thousands of people like me. They stopped buying GM cars as a
direct result of having lots of mechanical and electrical problems
with GM cars. I do beleive that GM and Ford does a great job in
regard to making full sized pick-up trucks. I have yet to meet anyone
that complained about the quality of their full sized GM and Ford
pick-up trucks.
Jason

 

[Mike Hunter]

Then you think it is good thing for the American workers to buy a Toyota
made in Japan of Chinese parts or a Chevy made in Korea of Korean parts to
help send their childrens jobs off shore? LOL


mike hunt

 

[sigvald]

Björn, that's like saying that ecocarsales went from 5 units to 27
units in March. Big deal! Was that year over year? Month over month? Be
more specific.


Sadly, not all of us can read the Swedish or Icelandic languages, so
for your comment to be meaningful, you would have to provide more
specific information.

Well, it is hardly his fault that you are linguistically challenged, is
it?

 

[Lee Florack]

Then you think it is good thing for the American workers to buy a Toyota
made in Japan of Chinese parts or a Chevy made in Korea of Korean parts to
help send their childrens jobs off shore? LOL


mike hunt

In a free market, I think it's a good idea to buy the best product
at the best price from whoever makes it. If all things were equal,
I'd be ecstatic to buy American again. I used to buy GM (Chevy and
Buick) until I realized that I was spending way too much for the
cars -- both to purchase and maintain -- them for the quality I was
getting. So, after many, many years of GM purchases, about 5 years
ago, I started buying Honda/Acura. The quality is exponentially
better while the cost is normally less -- or a similar price with
much higher value.

For those who think we should just "Buy American" no matter what,
consider that the advantage of buying for the best value is that it
rewards those who are able to provide the better products. Those
who aren't able to do that, either get better or go out of business.
We as consumers then get better value for our money because of
reasonable competition.

Buying inferior vehicles for too much money just so we can buy
American is not -- in the long run -- the best thing to do for us
personally or for us as Americans.

 

[Jeff]

In Detroit, scrapping 15-year-old car designs, upgrading factories, and
even inventing the minivan also made no sense because the MBA mindset
hates uncertainty, and capital investment always includes a high degree
of uncertainty.


Hybrids are uneconomical at $3/gallon, but at $5+ it's another matter,
and currently no realistic alternatives exist improve fuel consumption
much, except diesels, but crude oil yields far less diesel than
gasoline.

About 20% less diesel for the same amount of energy.
http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documents/clean_vehicles/dieseldilemma_exsum.pdf

And if we ever adopt a sensible energy plan, then either gas
will be $5/gallon, or vehicles with bad fuel economy will cost more to
buy than the efficient ones.

Or we will learn to use renewable fuels.

Jeff

 

[R Sweeney]

That's almost always going to be the case for people who drive only
10K/year, but people who travel 3-4 times that much can come out ahead,
as some NYC cabbies have.

I wouldn't assume EPA mileage numbers for either hybrids or IC-only
cars, but Consumer Reports numbers have been realistic, and my Prius
got very close to their 35/50. I didn't buy it for the savings or
ecological purposes but for the same reason exterminators often drive
Beetles with toilet seats on the roof to represent mouse ears --
advertising.

Prius saves 620 gallons per 100K of driving.
So if you log 40K per year, you STILL need 18 years of driving to break even
@ $3/gal.

 

[R Sweeney]

Or we will learn to use renewable fuels.

1 large nuclear power plant can power a lot of cars

 

[dizzy]

GM will not go bankrupt.

I bet it will.

No large company does.

Bullshit.

 

[rmac]

I bet it will.


Bullshit.

Dizzy, go climb into your ricer and drive to foreign car group.
plonk

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

Prius saves 620 gallons per 100K of driving.
So if you log 40K per year, you STILL need 18 years of driving to break even
@ $3/gal.

Not to mention Toyota MAY be losing money on each Prius. And if the
g'mint gives buyers tax breaks - it will erode the resale value of all
previously purchased Pri-i.

Carl

 

[Jeff]

1 large nuclear power plant can power a lot of cars

True, but the nuclear power plants' electricity is already taken up powering
computers, lights, A/C, etc.

Besides, nuclear power is not renewable.

Jeff

 

[dh]

Not to mention Toyota MAY be losing money on each Prius.

What humanitarians they must be, to give away a Prius for less than the cost
to manufacture and warranty.

And if the
g'mint gives buyers tax breaks - it will erode the resale value of all
previously purchased Pri-i.

Carl

If that's happening, the effect is small, to say the least. A used 2005
Prius is worth pretty close to the original list price.



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[dh]

Dizzy, go climb into your ricer and drive to foreign car group.
plonk

Worldcom...
Enron...
Was it Continental or SeaFirst that got taken down in the energy lending
rush of the early '80's?
Too many airlines to remember...

Now, apologize to Dizzy and play nice.



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[Cool Jet]

(Sigvaldi Eggertsson) sigvaldATbinetDOTis from Reykjavik, Iceland
wrote:

Well, it is hardly his fault that you are linguistically challenged, is
it?

Nor is it his fault that you are follically challenged, suffering from
penis envy and forced to learn English or go hungry! ;-) Your native
tongue is hardly the language of international commerce, is it?

Nor am I an expert on the Christmas grouse shortage in Iceland although
I am advised that you "always thought the bird was called "Ptarmigan"
not Grouse."

"What everyone DOES understand is what you mean when you say Eastern
and Western Europe, noting that it no longer assumes East is
impoverished. Some people are sensitive about the above labels though."

Nor is it anyone's fault that according to the bureau of statistics
(www.hagstofa.is) as of
1st dec. 2004, Iceland had 5775 members of the Roman Catholic church.


It really is a small world, isn't it Mr. Eggertsson? There's no reason
for you to be so defensive about being from a small country. Get over
it. And your more urgent concerns could be partially rectified with a
hair implant and penile transplant from your pet cat. ;-)

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

Worldcom...
Enron...
Was it Continental or SeaFirst that got taken down in the energy lending
rush of the early '80's?
Too many airlines to remember...

Now, apologize to Dizzy and play nice.



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Braniff, Montgomery-Ward, soon Winchester (at one time they had about as
many stores as Radio Shack!) etc. But, there are at least 2 precedents
for saving vehicle manufacturers - Chrysler and harley-davidson. So I
wouldn't discount the possibility that the US taxpayer ends up bailing
out GM in some fashion.

Carl

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

What humanitarians they must be, to give away a Prius for less than the cost
to manufacture and warranty.




If that's happening, the effect is small, to say the least. A used 2005
Prius is worth pretty close to the original list price.



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Well, the idea is, why buy used if a new one comes with a huge tax
credit. Of course, they could (and should) extend that same or similar
percentage credit to purchasers of used Pri-i. But will they? this is
the g'mint we're talking about! lol!

I'll be more excited about hybrids when I can 'top off' the traction
batts in the garage.

Carl

 

[Cool Jet]

ecocars make new records
ecocars counted for 15% of registration in march
new record. This is according to statistics from Bil Sweden
Total sales 3.845 ecocars. That is increase by 540% compared with march
last year. All types of ecocars, etanol, gas, hybrid and especially
effective besin and diesel cars increased
Saab 9-5 Biopower was the most sold ecocar in march with 1.531
registrations. Second place Ford Focus Fleifuel and third place Volvo
V50 Flexifuel.

Hey Gosinn, thanks for the translation. Man, if 3,845 cars represent
15% of all Swedish Sales in a month, that means only 25,633 cars were
sold in a month! Any major North American city sells more than that
many cars in a month!

And if 3,845 ecocars represent a 540% increase year-over-year for
March, that means that only 712 were sold in the prior March. It's
damned near time that the Swedish took environmental concerns more
seriously! They should be ashamed! :-Þ

 

[Ray O]

Not to mention Toyota MAY be losing money on each Prius. And if the g'mint
gives buyers tax breaks - it will erode the resale value of all previously
purchased Pri-i.

Carl

I can assure you from first hand experience that Toyota does not sell
vehicles at a loss. Besides, Toyota would run afoul of laws against dumping
if they were to sell vehicles at a loss.

 

[w_tom]

I should have stated the expression clearer. In each case (barring
one), the company only dabbled in bankruptcy to return intact.
Employees (many) still had their jobs. In the one rare case where a
company went into bankruptcy and little came out - Enron - the
condition was due to extraordinary flagrant fraud. One example among
thousands means, for all practical purposes, the number of complete
bankruptcy is near zero. Either a company recovers intact (although
changed) OR a company is consumed by another or others.

The point is that GM will remain. Will it remain like AT&T -
constantly downsized and destroying American jobs? Will it
disintegrate by selling off its divisions like DEC? Will it simply be
merged into another profitable company like Lucent? In each case,
bankruptcy only forces management to act in company interests - not in
executive interests.

Large companies don't terminate in bankruptcy. They get merged,
sold, distributed among other companies, or revised. Contrarian
examples are so rare as to be virtually zero. GM will remain. The
only question is HOW it will remain. In GM's case, because so many
previously attempted to sell off parts of GM and discovered that was
not possible, then most likely GM will simply be reorganized. Taxpayer
will pay for those $billions that GM failed to put into pension funds
so that management would claim 1990s profits that never really existed.
Another example of corporate welfare complete with golden parachutes
for those who were criminally negligent as executives.