Who was it who mentioned Fram oil filters and dropping oil pressure?

[jim]

Show me where there was *any* significant change in the small-block
Chevy V8 oiling system when GM changed the block casting to use spin-on
filters. That Fram should not have blown up.

Well guess what I don't disagree with that statement although it is
possible GM modified the oil pressure regulator. I know that fram oil
filters don't blow up for all the people who install them on cars where
the owner hasn't modified the lubricating system and it is working
properly. So what conclusions does one draw from those facts put
together?

If I remember correctly, GM used a similar adapter for a few months to
use up the "non spin-on" block still in the parts pipeline.

That may be true but I suspect that a Fram filter never once blew up
when used on any of those.

-jim

 

[Nate Nagel]

Well guess what I don't disagree with that statement although it is
possible GM modified the oil pressure regulator. I know that fram oil
filters don't blow up for all the people who install them on cars where
the owner hasn't modified the lubricating system and it is working
properly.

That's demonstrably not true for *all* people. 80's aircooled VWs for
example, would develop very high pressures on cold startup (I've seen
them peg 100 PSI gauges) and they could and did occasionally pop Frams.

Of course, as always, don't let facts get in the way of your ranting.
It's kind of amusing watching you proudly demonstrate your ignorance and
prejudices on a worldwide forum for all to admire!

nate

 

[jim]

That's demonstrably not true for *all* people. 80's aircooled VWs for
example, would develop very high pressures on cold startup (I've seen
them peg 100 PSI gauges) and they could and did occasionally pop Frams.

Yeah right. And of course you can point to complaints from VW that
document this?

All Fram filters conform to manufacturers burst pressure specs. I've
never seen a car makers burst pressure specification that is below 200
PSI and some of them are a lot higher.

Of course, as always, don't let facts get in the way of your ranting.

You mean like facts that some engines have malfunctioning components
like pressure regulators?

It's kind of amusing watching you proudly demonstrate your ignorance and
prejudices on a worldwide forum for all to admire!

Are you talking to yourself again?

Why don't you take your complaints to the FTC if you have shred of
proof to support them? I'll tell you why you don't because your stories
are fabricated from thin air. If you have even a scintilla of evidence
to back up your complaint the FTC will take you very seriously.


-jim

 

[Nate Nagel]

Yeah right. And of course you can point to complaints from VW that
document this?

Why would VW complain? Their engines and most aftermarket filters have
no problems.

All Fram filters conform to manufacturers burst pressure specs. I've
never seen a car makers burst pressure specification that is below 200
PSI and some of them are a lot higher.

Then why do they burst? Could it be because they're marginally built?

You mean like facts that some engines have malfunctioning components
like pressure regulators?

Non sequitur. We're talking about engines that are performing as designed.

Are you talking to yourself again?

Why don't you take your complaints to the FTC if you have shred of
proof to support them? I'll tell you why you don't because your stories
are fabricated from thin air. If you have even a scintilla of evidence
to back up your complaint the FTC will take you very seriously.

I just don't buy Fram filters and I don't have a problem.

The fact that you continue to obfuscate and berate those that choose
such a simple fix is beyond me.

nate

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

That's demonstrably not true for *all* people. 80's aircooled VWs for
example, would develop very high pressures on cold startup (I've seen them
peg 100 PSI gauges) and they could and did occasionally pop Frams.

Of course, as always, don't let facts get in the way of your ranting. It's
kind of amusing watching you proudly demonstrate your ignorance and
prejudices on a worldwide forum for all to admire!

nate

Really, man, I tell you, those who think they know everything annoy the
hell out of us who really *DO*!

I was beginning to think 'jim' was a bot...

 

[jim]

Then why do they burst? Could it be because they're marginally built?

They burst for the same reason other filters burst. The engine develops
considerably more oil pressure than the manufacture's oil filter
pressure specification calls for. If you have any proof at all that Fram
filters do not meet manufacturers specifications and burst at a lower
pressure that would be one thing. But you don't have any proof. You just
have a stream of bullshit.

Non sequitur. We're talking about engines that are performing as designed.

Your talking bullshit.

I just don't buy Fram filters and I don't have a problem.

I have no problem with that, But when you repeatedly and insistently
attempt to spread unsubstantiated rumors don't be surprised that that
someone calls you full of shit.

-jim

 

[Kevin]

They burst for the same reason other filters burst. The engine
develops considerably more oil pressure than the manufacture's oil
filter pressure specification calls for. If you have any proof at all
that Fram filters do not meet manufacturers specifications and burst
at a lower pressure that would be one thing. But you don't have any
proof. You just have a stream of bullshit.


Your talking bullshit.


I have no problem with that, But when you repeatedly and insistently
attempt to spread unsubstantiated rumors don't be surprised that that
someone calls you full of shit.

hey jimmy boy you still so fucking stupid that when an overwhelmning
amount of people have first hand seen these problems you still want to
pretend they don`t exist. you are one dumb sob to be so blind. and
your faith in the FTC is laughable. WAKE up you gullible idiot. KB

-jim

 

[bugalugs]

They burst for the same reason other filters burst. The engine develops
considerably more oil pressure than the manufacture's oil filter
pressure specification calls for. If you have any proof at all that Fram
filters do not meet manufacturers specifications and burst at a lower
pressure that would be one thing. But you don't have any proof. You just
have a stream of bullshit.


Your talking bullshit.


I have no problem with that, But when you repeatedly and insistently
attempt to spread unsubstantiated rumors don't be surprised that that
someone calls you full of shit.

But if I have a product, any product, and it fails, and a second one
fails or I hear of someone else who has the same problem I'm not going
to go out and blindly buy another just because the manufacturer claims
they are all made to the design specifications. It failed.

And I'm going to tell everyone who asks, or will listen. It's human nature.

There are other products out there that do the same/better/worse job but
they haven't failed on me.

It's not bulls*t it's commercial realty

 

[clare]

Wonder if the overheating engine also overheated the trans.

The tranny showed no sign of being overheated, and the engine overheat
was due to a rapid loss of coolant on level highway without any extra
load. Some hamfisted "mechanic" broke the plastic water bypass fitting
off the intake when replacing the alternator (which was not
defective). It belonged to the husband of one of the gals at the
insurance office where I work a few hours. He was sick of it and sold
it to me at scrap price.

 

[clare]

Well guess what I don't disagree with that statement although it is
possible GM modified the oil pressure regulator. I know that fram oil
filters don't blow up for all the people who install them on cars where
the owner hasn't modified the lubricating system and it is working
properly. So what conclusions does one draw from those facts put
together?

No mods at all to the regulator and there WAS an AC-Delco supplied
spin-on filter adapter available through GM Parts.

That may be true but I suspect that a Fram filter never once blew up
when used on any of those.

It was a Fram that blew off my '69 Dart slant six - but to be fair, it
WAS -45 F with 20 weight oil.
That was about the last Fram filter I've used. - back in 1972.

 

[clare]

Yeah right. And of course you can point to complaints from VW that
document this?

All Fram filters conform to manufacturers burst pressure specs. I've
never seen a car makers burst pressure specification that is below 200
PSI and some of them are a lot higher.

All filters are DESIGNED to conform to manufacturer's burst pressure
specs. Doesn't mean every one off the line DOES. Poor quality control
can make a compliant design into a total disaster - particularly if
the design is to JUST conform to the specs.

 

[jim]

It was a Fram that blew off my '69 Dart slant six - but to be fair, it
WAS -45 F with 20 weight oil.
That was about the last Fram filter I've used. - back in 1972.

That is evidence only that you are superstitious. It is not evidence
that Fram filters are not built to manufacturers specification. If a
Napa gold or a purolator or Wix blows under the same conditions the
superstitious will blame it on a stuck regulator. It is only when it
happens to a Fram that they blame it on the bogeyman.

 

[jim]

But if I have a product, any product, and it fails, and a second one
fails or I hear of someone else who has the same problem I'm not going
to go out and blindly buy another just because the manufacturer claims
they are all made to the design specifications. It failed.

If what you say were true you could have Fram put out business. But you
don't have a shred of evidence. It's just all made up stories. Take a
fram filter to the FTC and prove it doesn't meet design specs and they
will shut them down. But can't prove a damn thing because its all hot
air.

And I'm going to tell everyone who asks, or will listen. It's human nature.

Yes it is the nature of ignorant and superstitious humans.

There are other products out there that do the same/better/worse job but
they haven't failed on me.

It's not bulls*t it's commercial realty

Its bullshit.

 

[jim]

All filters are DESIGNED to conform to manufacturer's burst pressure
specs. Doesn't mean every one off the line DOES. Poor quality control
can make a compliant design into a total disaster - particularly if
the design is to JUST conform to the specs.

So file a complaint with the FTC. If there is even a tiny bit of truth
to what you say, Fram is in big trouble. But everyone reading this knows
you won't file cause there aint no truth at all to your statements. Its
all just legend and folklore.


https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/FTC_Wizard.aspx?Lang=en

 

[clare]

That is evidence only that you are superstitious. It is not evidence
that Fram filters are not built to manufacturers specification. If a
Napa gold or a purolator or Wix blows under the same conditions the
superstitious will blame it on a stuck regulator. It is only when it
happens to a Fram that they blame it on the bogeyman.

Where did I say it was BECAUSE that filter split that it was the last
Fram filter I used?????
Nowhere - that's where.

It just happens that trip co-incided with my changing employment from
the general repair garage that used Fram to a Toyota dealership -
where Putolator built Toyota branded filters were available to me at a
good price - and Toyota used the same PH8 style filter the "leaning
tower of power" used.

Actually, for a while, CMI (Canadian Motor Industries - Now Toyota
Canada) was supplying japanese built filters, and I used them.

And the filter did NOT split. It just "blew off". Took the threads
right out of the base plate. SHOULD have blown the gasket out first,
but didn't

 

[clare]

If what you say were true you could have Fram put out business. But you
don't have a shred of evidence. It's just all made up stories. Take a
fram filter to the FTC and prove it doesn't meet design specs and they
will shut them down. But can't prove a damn thing because its all hot
air.

You've got a LOT of faith in a federal agency.

 

[bugalugs]

If what you say were true you could have Fram put out business. But you
don't have a shred of evidence. It's just all made up stories. Take a
fram filter to the FTC and prove it doesn't meet design specs and they
will shut them down. But can't prove a damn thing because its all hot
air.

So you're saying that it's all hot air and no Fram filter has failed.

On what do you base that??

Yes it is the nature of ignorant and superstitious humans.

I don't think that I am ignorant I take it you have some medical
qualifications to make that diagnosis. I am certainly not superstitious.

Its bullshit.

Some months ago I bought an espresso coffee machine. Top of the line
model from a reputable manufacturer. An electronic component failed. The
replacement (brand new straight out of the box) arrived friday. Setting
it up today and it fails to produce any steam. Tomorrow it goes back. I
don't think it would be ignorance or superstitious of me to tell friends
and dissuade them from buying that brand.

 

[SMS]

But if I have a product, any product, and it fails, and a second one
fails or I hear of someone else who has the same problem I'm not going
to go out and blindly buy another just because the manufacturer claims
they are all made to the design specifications. It failed.

And I'm going to tell everyone who asks, or will listen. It's human nature.

There are other products out there that do the same/better/worse job but
they haven't failed on me.

When it comes to consumer products, often anecdotal evidence from users
of the product, and reviews from individuals that tear down and evaluate
the build quality, are all you have to go by. For oil filters there's no
independent testing agency that runs around testing every model of
filter from every manufacturer on every different vehicle that the
filter fits.

Based on the teardowns of Fram filters, and based on extensive anecdotal
evidence, the logical thing to do would be to play it safer by going
with an OEM filter rather than risk using a Fram filter. Maybe all the
reports of Fram filter failures are fiction, but those reports, combined
with so many different evaluations by those that disassemble filters,
make it probable that where there's so much smoke that there's probably
fire.

 

[jim]

So you're saying that it's all hot air and no Fram filter has failed.

You got the hot air part right. I have seen no evidence that Fram
filters fail often enough to justify the hysteria you promote. If you
buy a new car and use Fram filters on it and follow the car makers
recommended service procedures, from the real evidence I have seen, you
will have a statistically better chance of having your car run over by a
bus than have it done in by the Fram filters.

On what do you base that??
I don't think that I am ignorant I take it you have some medical
qualifications to make that diagnosis. I am certainly not superstitious.

You believe in what you think are facts without any real evidence to
support them.

And yes I have authentic certified license to spot internet quacks. I
downloaded it from the official international web site for study and
identification of internet folklore and fiction.


-jim

 

[jim]

You've got a LOT of faith in a federal agency.

I see what I see. If you paid attention you might too.

The FTC for whatever reason seems to be intensely interested in claims
manufacturer make about automobile related products. They seem to think
it is extremely important to police the after market products for cars.
However, there power is pretty much limited to determining if
advertising claims are valid.

It has been my observation that if anyone attempts to market a product
in the USA that is related to the automobile you had better be prepared
with a mountain of evidence to support any advertising claims that you
make about that product. If Fram filters are not able to prove that
their claim that they meet or exceed all the engine builders
specifications for their filters those filters will soon be removed from
the store shelves. Or at the very least they will be forced to stop
making the claims. And if that were to happen you would have actual real
world evidence that I would believe rather than just internet folk tales
that I find unconvincing.

File a complaint if you think there is a case to be made. This is not
that complicated. It is not as if it takes a rocket scientist to
hydrostatic test and determine the burst pressure of an oil filter.

I think you could go down to your local Walmart and take every single
one of the hundreds of Fram filters they have in stock and you wouldn't
be able to find a single one that is out of compliance.

The manufacturing sector in the USA may be in decline, but it is not
yet as broken as your imagination has conceived it to be. This is just
an oil filter we are talking about. It is not that complicated.


-jim