I'm Tired Of These Ungrateful Hurricane Victims

[The Wogster]

Certainly makes more sense than letting them stay in their parking lots
where they would certainly be swamped, and useless. Even the cops
didn't have the intelligence to move their cars. Just pee-poor planning.

Seems like the evacuation plan was "every man for himself". There is a
good thing in all of this though, a lot of cities on the East Coast,
will be looking at their own evacuation plans, which should consider
many things, including how fast a city can be cleared based on the
highways and roads in the area. How many people will be able to leave
by car, and how to get others out.

W

 

[AustinMN]

I don't condone looting. But I also don't condone lack of charity, nor
lack of empathy.

I think you have hit on jaba's entire problem.

There was a shrink who spent a great deal of time with the top
officials tried at Neurimburg (sp) after the war. Try as he might, he
could only find one small link between them all. His conclusion: They
all lacked any sense of empathy for their victims.

Austin

 

[Kurt Ullman]

Very true. They just mentioned that today. In 2001, he cut the funding
for the Army Corps of Engineers work on protecting New Orleans. You reap
what you sow.

So, how about Eisenhower and his reticence to fund things? I know
of at least one Corp of Engineers plan that reaches back to the 50s.


--
Among the leading competitors for the title of
"World's Oldest Profession" must surely be rescue workers.
There can be little doubt that when men lived in caves, children got
their hands caught in crevices, families became trapped under
mudslides and flash floods wiped out dwellings...."
-Jack Zusman, M.D.

 

[Kurt Ullman]

(e-mail address removed) wrote:

Seems like the evacuation plan was "every man for himself". There is a
good thing in all of this though, a lot of cities on the East Coast,
will be looking at their own evacuation plans, which should consider
many things, including how fast a city can be cleared based on the
highways and roads in the area. How many people will be able to leave
by car, and how to get others out.

The keystone for generations of planners in NO has been to move
people to the Dome. It has been practiced, gamed, discussed, and
cussed for years. They sent busses around to get people. The problem
(and hindsight is always better than 20/20) is that no one seems to
have the next step and asked what would happen if the Dome became
uninhabitable.

--
Among the leading competitors for the title of
"World's Oldest Profession" must surely be rescue workers.
There can be little doubt that when men lived in caves, children got
their hands caught in crevices, families became trapped under
mudslides and flash floods wiped out dwellings...."
-Jack Zusman, M.D.

 

[chrcollins]

Especially when you've been through others and - let's face it - nearly
every storm gets hyped as "the killer".

Apparently, so I've been told, Lousiana law allows looting for "necessities"
in life-threatening situations.

However, I wonder what kind of satisfaction these jewelry store looters are
getting from being able to tell their starving buddies what time it is using
those fancy Rolex watches now on their wrists. I guess if you're going to
die, you might as well go with as much bling as you can carry.

Most of them probably aren't thinking much beyond "here's my chance to
get a Rolex". Some of them though, might be thinking trade value. When
the red cross truck only has a few bottles of water left, or the boat
headed to dry land is nearly full it isn't such a bad idea to have
something you can use to improve your chances of being one of the lucky
ones.

 

[The Wogster]

The keystone for generations of planners in NO has been to move
people to the Dome. It has been practiced, gamed, discussed, and
cussed for years. They sent busses around to get people. The problem
(and hindsight is always better than 20/20) is that no one seems to
have the next step and asked what would happen if the Dome became
uninhabitable.

Which it would, in a very short period of time, any time you put a large
group of people in a small confined space, for an extended period of
time, you will end up with problems. Guess they also didn't account for
not being able to evacuate the Dome because the streets were under water
for an extended period.

W

 

[Kurt Ullman]

Which it would, in a very short period of time, any time you put a large
group of people in a small confined space, for an extended period of
time, you will end up with problems. Guess they also didn't account for
not being able to evacuate the Dome because the streets were under water
for an extended period.

Probably. As has been noted in many other contexts, people
sometimes become wedded to their ideas much tighter than their
spouses (g).
The other thing to remember, is that under the Constitution and
disaster laws, the Feds are a subsidiary of the State. All Guard
units, no matter which state they are from, are AUTOMATICALLY
chopped to the command and control of the local governor. Same with
the FEMA types. They can only do what the locals will let them.

--
Among the leading competitors for the title of
"World's Oldest Profession" must surely be rescue workers.
There can be little doubt that when men lived in caves, children got
their hands caught in crevices, families became trapped under
mudslides and flash floods wiped out dwellings...."
-Jack Zusman, M.D.

 

[ReptilesBlade]

(e-mail address removed) wrote in @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

All those losers whining about "where's the government?", "We got
nothing" "they leaving us here to die" and such are starting to really
piss me off. Our society has created a whole population of people who
rely on the government for all needs- housing, food, medical care.
That are unable to fend for themselves in any way hurricane or not.
Now they must really be suffering, almost like a domestic pet that
suddenly finds itself living in the wild.
First of all you live in an area BELOW sea level-not smart. Then its an
area that is subject to hurricanes and storms. Then word of an
impending hurricane comes out and you do not stock up and prepare. Why?
Because you have no responsibility for your own life. The gov't has
always taken care of you even when you refused to stay in school and
get a job. They support you after popping out numerous out-of-wedlock
babies. They take care of you in prison when you refuse to follow
society's rules. Adversity is when the American Spirit rises to the
top. Unfortunately you still choose to take by looting and causing
further damage to your countrymen. I just had to rant.

I am saddened to see this great discussion eclipsed by all of the trolling
and lack of compassion of some people for their fellow man. Though I do
agree with the your point for the most part you fail to keep in mind that
there really are some people who are incapable of fending for themselves.

And it is "Human Spirit", not "American Spirit". What makes this country go
wonderful is that we care for those that are suffering and we offer
humanitarian aid to those that need it to the best of our abilities. The
key word there is humanitarian, not American.

And the bigot who posted "How very Christian!!" needs to pull there head
out of their ass and realize a lot of what keeps this country a good place
to live are the Christian overtones in our society. They may do a little
harm when taken to extremes but more often than not Christians have been an
extremely beneficial group for society. This country was founded on
Christian morals and ethics and a large portion of our greatest
accomplishments as a society were and still are influenced by Christianity
and those that follow its theological message.

I dare the self-loving Satanist or Anarchist to say the same thing.

And just for the record, I am not a Fundie Christian or a Bush supporter.

 

[Mike McKinley]

The other thing to remember, is that under the Constitution and
disaster laws, the Feds are a subsidiary of the State. All Guard
units, no matter which state they are from, are AUTOMATICALLY
chopped to the command and control of the local governor. Same with
the FEMA types. They can only do what the locals will let them.

According to the Constitution, only the Congress, not the President, has
the sole power to declare war, however that has been conveniently
sidestepped continually during the latter half of the 20th Century.
Your rationale is unconvincing.

 

[Kurt Ullman]

According to the Constitution, only the Congress, not the President, has
the sole power to declare war, however that has been conveniently
sidestepped continually during the latter half of the 20th Century.
Your rationale is unconvincing.

BZZT. Thanks for playing, but the Constitution also states that
Congress has the power to "make all laws which shall be necessary
and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers". That
certainly covers the War Power Act. .
Of course the most interesting part of the War Powers Act is
that no one has actually had the guts to put it in front of the
courts. I think all sides are afraid of what might happen and both
might lose a way to take umbrage when the Pres from other side tries
to do something.

--
Among the leading competitors for the title of
"World's Oldest Profession" must surely be rescue workers.
There can be little doubt that when men lived in caves, children got
their hands caught in crevices, families became trapped under
mudslides and flash floods wiped out dwellings...."
-Jack Zusman, M.D.

 

[Derek Lyons]

The other thing to consider is the magnitude of the disaster itself.
Imagine a 27-foot (8+ meters) wall of water inundating whatever whiz-bang
high-tech pumping station and levee the gummint could have built.

<nods> And yet another thing to consider - the levees that failed
*first* were ones that were recently repaired and upgraded to
standards.

There's simply no way to ensure that nothing will fail, ever, under
any conditions. The world simply doesn't work that way.

D.

 

[Dave Vandervies]

I suspect they were among the first to leave.

That's the impression I get from what I've heard, and is an indicator
of Serious Problems no matter what else is going on.

But what I was addressing here was the claim that not everybody can
"just leave their job to evacuate". That claim doesn't hold up if
there's a cat 5 hurricane on the way.


dave

 

[Derek Lyons]

Very true. They just mentioned that today. In 2001, he cut the funding
for the Army Corps of Engineers work on protecting New Orleans. You reap
what you sow.

And Clinton cut it 1995, 1996, 1997, and 2000. Bush is reaping what
*he* sowed as well.

D.

 

[Kurt Ullman]

And Clinton cut it 1995, 1996, 1997, and 2000. Bush is reaping what
*he* sowed as well.

Somewhere around here I have a study from the Corp of Engineers on
the subject from the mid-50s. It is all Ike's fault (g)

--
I didn't - in spite of ample warnings by sociologists
from large Eastern Universities - foresee the need to have
27" flat-screen television sets available to every family in the
New Orleans city limits as soon as the electricity went out.
That one WAS my bad.
--Richard Galen at www.mullings.com

 

[r15757]

No, that describes the politicans who are running the country into the
ground and th escum that lives off them.

Yeah, the oil and gas companies and the energy-sucking
suburbanites, which describes most Americans.

There are a lot of folks who
understand it and don't like it.

And a lot of folks who don't know their ass from a
goddamn hole in the ground, but who are just beginning
to get a rude awakening.

Robert

 

[Jimmy]

And Clinton cut it 1995, 1996, 1997, and 2000. Bush is reaping what
*he* sowed as well.

D.

Any cites? Links?

 

[Bob the Cow]

Any cites? Links?

They're around here somewhere. Should be with the Rose Law Firm records.
Or maybe with Vince's keys or in his briefcase. Wait one, I'll check with
Craig Livingstone.

 

[araby]

(e-mail address removed) wrote in @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

And the bigot who posted "How very Christian!!" needs to pull there head
out of their ass and realize a lot of what keeps this country a good place
to live are the Christian overtones in our society.

You obviously don't visit this newsgroup very often or you would know that
the original poster claims to be a devout Christian.
In consequence you completely missed the sarcasm in my comment.

They may do a little harm when taken to extremes but more often than not
Christians have been an

extremely beneficial group for society. This country was founded on
Christian morals and ethics and a large portion of our greatest
accomplishments as a society were and still are influenced by Christianity
and those that follow its theological message.

I'm quite well aware of all that and don't need the lesson thanks. In fact I
am not even a national or resident of "this country" or a member of "our
society". However, I do resent being called a bigot.by someone who clearly
jumps to confusions.

I dare the self-loving Satanist or Anarchist to say the same thing.

What does this mean ? What thing?

And just for the record, I am not a Fundie Christian or a Bush supporter.

What then?

 

[gregory]

Seattle also did as Chicago did, raising the city one-to-two stories after
the Great Seattle Fire. You can still tour part of the city that used to be
at ground level but is now underground. More here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Underground

 

[Runge]

christian lol
stupid believers in anything

How very Christian!!