They're Going To Put Refugees On Cruise Ships

[Don]

--




But it doesn't have to be! At least the violent, injust oppresion doesn't
have to be. I too am glad I am not an american.

HJW

Join the group of envious aliens. This country is less racist than 90
percent of the other world countries. The fact that we talk about it and
try to do something about it makes us in the forefront. I don't know what
your country is, but you probably have more racists than we have. They just
stay hidden. If you were truthful and examined yourself closely, you would
find that you are just as bad as those you try to sneer at.

Don D.
\

 

[Grolsch]

Your talkin out of your ass Don. Your myopic sense of self supremacy is just
as one would expect for a nation under attack from all sides. You can't even
see the forest for the trees.

 

[Don]

Your talkin out of your ass Don. Your myopic sense of self supremacy is
just as one would expect for a nation under attack from all sides. You
can't even see the forest for the trees.

You must have your ear to my ass then!! Lets take a tour around the world.

Mexico - totally racist. The natives in Mexico are treated 100 times worse
than any minority in the US. Dark skinned Mexicans are treated worse than
blacks in the US. They are excluded from many professions and treated
miserably.

South America - I haven't traveled there, but from what I read, it is the
same as in Mexico.

The Caribbean -- I lived in Puerto Rico for a couple of years and that
island is racist to its core. While there, a professor at the University of
San Juan wrote a thesis that got widespread attention. His claim was that
"every" citizen of Puerto Rico had African ancestry somewhere down the line.
He was almost hung!!! There were articles daily in El Mundo and the
American language newspaper with citizens in an uproar. One article stands
out. It showed a picture of a very black man with African features who was
incensed by the professors paper. He claimed that his ancestry was "pure
Castillian Spanish". This theme was played out daily. Nobody wanted to be
associated with African ancestry. The darker skinned individuals on that
island were excluded from many professions and bigotry was rampant.

Africa - I don' believe that anyone with any semblance of intelligence will
not admit that that continent is rampant with bigotry. Any bigotry,
anywhere in the world is misiscule compared to there.

Australia - I spent a month there a few years ago and the Aborigines (Sp)
are discriminated against worse than the blacks in this country. I talked
to people there in several cities and they were great, by the way. They
were almost universal in their hatred of the Abs and most of the immigrants
from Asia.

Japan - What can you say about Japan. If you are a not from their
country, you are not really deserving of any consideration. Totally racist.

Asia - Haven't been there, but from all I have read, it is about like
Japan.

Germany - They hate the people that they import to work there and don't want
them as citizens. They basically hate all people not German.

France - They are too stupid the even recognize what racism is. If you
speak French, you are OK. If not, you are on the receiving end of racism.


Canada - See France. They will encourage people from other countries,
mainly because no one wants to live in that cold. My Granddaughters,
husband's parents live there and they claim that racism is alive and well
there.

I haven't mentioned other countries, bucause I haven't been there. England
has racism, as do all of the othere countries in the world. The US only get
the publicity because we admit it and have article daily about trying to
eliminate it. Othere countries either hide it or just treat it is daily
life. You can say anything you want about this country, but "everyone"
seems to want in. Why would that be if it is so bad here?

You sound as if you are in the trees and can' see the civilization that has
progressed in this country to the point that we are actually trying to do
something about it. Every other country is sweeping their bigotry under the
rug and trying to sound " holier than thou"

Don d.

 

[Remco]

Join the group of envious aliens. This country is less racist than 90
percent of the other world countries. The fact that we talk about it and
try to do something about it makes us in the forefront. I don't know what
your country is, but you probably have more racists than we have. They just
stay hidden. If you were truthful and examined yourself closely, you would
find that you are just as bad as those you try to sneer at.

Don't take this as a sneer, but I wasn't aware that there was an
objective way of measuring racism - a tolerance index, if you will. So
if a discrete measurement is missing, how can it be said that the US is
90% less racist?

Unless you've lived several places as a minority, you really are not
qualified to make that judgement. Unless you are black, you don't know
what it feels like to be black in the US. (and with "you", I really
mean all of us - not just you).

The US is a wonderful country with mostly great people, but it does not
have a proud history of racial tolerance - let's be honest here.

If you (again "all of us") consider yourself tolerant, count how many
good friends (not counting people you work with) you have that are not
of your race. Perhaps the aforementioned tolerance index should be :
100 * different race friends / (same race friends + different race
friends) and average that for everyone in a country. It is purely
academic, but I hope you get my point because I do believe that number
will be very low..

Remco

 

[Don]

Don't take this as a sneer, but I wasn't aware that there was an
objective way of measuring racism - a tolerance index, if you will. So
if a discrete measurement is missing, how can it be said that the US is
90% less racist?

Sorry, I used the 90 percent figure as a purely objective value. It means
only that we in the US are very more tolerant of the different races that
make up our population. I generalize at times, but my statement is true.
We in this country talk about race relations constantly. You can't pick up
a newspaper without reading about it in some context. You see it on TV news
constantly. Look at TV and the Movies in general. Minorities are
represented in greater proportion than their relation to the population.
(This applies to Blacks primarily. Asians and Hispanics have a way to go in
this respect.)

Unless you've lived several places as a minority, you really are not
qualified to make that judgement. Unless you are black, you don't know
what it feels like to be black in the US. (and with "you", I really
mean all of us - not just you).

You are correct - I don't know what it feels like to be black in the US. I
don't know what it feels like to be black in Africa, Japan, Russia, England,
or for that matter, any country. That is not what I am talking about. I
admit that racism exists in the US. It exist "EVERYWHERE". It is basic
human nature and probably won't change until this world becomes civilized.
We are far from that goal.

My contention is that we in the US recognize prejudice, racism, bigotry and
are actually trying to do something about it. This is not true in most
countries. It is swept under the rug and the only mention of it is in
condeming the US. That makes it easier to stomach for the "holier than
thou" types who like to dump on the US.

The US is a wonderful country with mostly great people, but it does not
have a proud history of racial tolerance - let's be honest here.

Hell, I am honest there! Anyone who doesn't realize that is ignoring facts.
Just go back to my argument that we are trying to do something about it.
Japan certainly isn't. Australia is.

If you (again "all of us") consider yourself tolerant, count how many
good friends (not counting people you work with) you have that are not
of your race. Perhaps the aforementioned tolerance index should be :
100 * different race friends / (same race friends + different race
friends) and average that for everyone in a country. It is purely
academic, but I hope you get my point because I do believe that number
will be very low..

Remco

By your argument, I should go out and solicit black, Hispanic and Asian
friends. Sorry, but life doesn't work that way. If someone does that, they
are being condescending and it would probably be recognized as such. We
make most of our friends among our neighbors, co-workers, church members and
such. If this includes minorities, it works, but you certainly don't stop
the first black that you see and say, "let's be friends". This country is
slowly getting to the point where blacks and whites are being friends, but
it will take more years than you, your children and their children live
before a dent is made. My son is married to a Hispanic but that doesn't
mean that many of my friends are Hispanic. Life just doesn't work that way.

What county to you live in?

Don D.

 

[Remco]

Sorry, I used the 90 percent figure as a purely objective value. It means
only that we in the US are very more tolerant of the different races that
make up our population. I generalize at times, but my statement is true.
We in this country talk about race relations constantly. You can't pick up
a newspaper without reading about it in some context. You see it on TV news
constantly. Look at TV and the Movies in general. Minorities are
represented in greater proportion than their relation to the population.
(This applies to Blacks primarily. Asians and Hispanics have a way to go in
this respect.)

Sorry, I work in the sciences so when I see stats, my hair stands up
quickly. Stats are there to be questioned, IMO.
That's true, minorities are represented more and more. I agree with you
that we're heading in the right direction.

You are correct - I don't know what it feels like to be black in the US. I
don't know what it feels like to be black in Africa, Japan, Russia, England,
or for that matter, any country. That is not what I am talking about. I
admit that racism exists in the US. It exist "EVERYWHERE". It is basic
human nature and probably won't change until this world becomes civilized.
We are far from that goal.

Agreed, it exists everywhere. Some places more than others, though.
I've been almost everywhere in the world; We (the human race) have a
lot to learn.

My contention is that we in the US recognize prejudice, racism, bigotry and
are actually trying to do something about it. This is not true in most
countries. It is swept under the rug and the only mention of it is in
condeming the US. That makes it easier to stomach for the "holier than
thou" types who like to dump on the US.

Many countries are working on it as well.
Of course, the US is an easy target because of its (even recent)
history. Again, I do agree that it is a work in progress.

By your argument, I should go out and solicit black, Hispanic and Asian
friends. Sorry, but life doesn't work that way. If someone does that, they
are being condescending and it would probably be recognized as such. We
make most of our friends among our neighbors, co-workers, church members and
such. If this includes minorities, it works, but you certainly don't stop
the first black that you see and say, "let's be friends". This country is
slowly getting to the point where blacks and whites are being friends, but
it will take more years than you, your children and their children live
before a dent is made. My son is married to a Hispanic but that doesn't
mean that many of my friends are Hispanic. Life just doesn't work that way.

No, that's not what I meant -- the formula was really just tongue in
cheek because the problem is not that simple. I am not suggesting we
seek out minorities to be friends with and create an artificial utopia.

The basic premise I was trying to convey is this: You befriend who you
live around - those whom you are in close contact with.
There are many areas in the US where most people are of one
culture/race so one would not have many diverse relationships - nothing
wrong with that.
But, on the other hand, If you live in a large city or densely
populated area, you live around people of many other cultures. In an
ideal colorblind society, your friends should reflect that microscosm
of society.

What county to you live in?

I've experienced both near ends of the racial tolerance spectrum:
Grew up in the Netherlands (60s/70s) and live in the US, near NYC
(and, Yes, I have black, hispanic, far and middle eastern friends. I
like food so perhaps my friendship with them is purely egoistic: their
foods are great!

This isn't something we'll solve in a car newsgroup, but I am glad to
see there are critical thinking people like you out there.
Raise your kids that way and eventually we'll get there.

Remco

 

[SMS]

Bill Sornson wrote:

By Robert Tracinski

He's already had to backtrack on some of his mis-statements of fact.
It's well written, and most people will never read the corrections, so
he's accomplished his mission of misinformation.

 

[Bill Sornson]

Bill Sornson wrote:



He's already had to backtrack on some of his mis-statements of fact.
It's well written, and most people will never read the corrections, so
he's accomplished his mission of misinformation.

JFTR I posted that piece "without comment" because it directly related to a
"sub-discussion" in the thread (which had nothing to do with prisoners, by
the way). Someone had just sent it to me and I hadn't read it carefully or
researched it at all; thus the "no comment" comment.

Having all but been called a racist by one person, I think it's a sad day in
this country when systemic societal shortcomings can't be mentioned for fear
of being non-PC.