R.I.P. General Motors (1931-2006)

[Unidyne]

Rolls Royce is now part of the BMW Group. Bentley is now part of the
Volkswagen Group.

....and (as far as I know) the Turkish division of Chrysler is still
selling trucks with the DeSoto nameplate!

http://www.roadkillontheweb.com/images/dt006.jpg

===unidyne===

 

[karinhall]

Perhaps for far East sales? I cannot imagine they abandoning their
plants here and having to ship product back here from the far East. I
thought that is why they built plants here.

Right, and no one believed 10 years ago that GM would be assembling cars in Mexico and other third world countries either! <g>

 

[rantonrave]

Part of the whole problem is the greedy unions.

A very small part of the whole problem. Otherwise Caterpillar, which
is also represented by the UAW, wouldn't be doing so well and wouldn't
be considered the best in its industry.

GM's trouble is 90% bad management. Either they hire Carlos Ghosn from
Renault to save them, or they eventually get taken over by Ford or
Magna, a parts manufacturer.

 

[Fwap]

Making a part or a electronic circut board is far different than moving
your entire operation to China. I'm told by reliable sources that China
is difficult to do business with. If I owned a car company, I would buy
parts but I'd never move my entire facility or in other words be
completely dependent on China, no way no how.

Oh, they will. They can't resist the siren song of yet again
settling in a new land of plenty and promise where they can
be massa on their own plantation.

There are very few "difficulties" companies won't be
prepared to face if tempted by the prospect of not having to
pay their workers.

....

 

[Jeff]

General Motors ----> (Rest in Pieces)

Rust didn't kill'em, Customers didn't kill'em....

SUCK ASS Management and the UAW *both* killed GM.

NOW.....just watch and see all those UAW Retirees
whose pensions and health coverage will shortly
EVAPORATE into Corporate Swiss and Cayman Island
bank accounts.

Actually, the money would go to a government agency, something like the
Pension Guarenty Trust Board. The trust will take over all the pension
assets and pay the former and present workers a smaller pension than
previously planned. The airlines did this. Now it may be the automakers'
turn.

I don't blame GM's management or the UAW. (Discloser: I am a member of a
strong union: NYC UFT teachers' union).

And it is not the pensions that are the big problem. It is all the health
care costs, both for present workers and retirees.

Jeff

 

[mark_digital]

A very small part of the whole problem. Otherwise Caterpillar, which
is also represented by the UAW, wouldn't be doing so well and wouldn't
be considered the best in its industry.

GM's trouble is 90% bad management. Either they hire Carlos Ghosn from
Renault to save them, or they eventually get taken over by Ford or
Magna, a parts manufacturer.

The problem is called Wall Street. Pay investors everything including seed,
then there's nothing left.
mark_

 

[Jeff]

The started assembling vehicles in the US of foreign parts in plants built
in this county with taxpayers funds to escape import tariffs. Those
tariffs no longer exist.

And the cars are now built with mostly domestic content.

Jeff

mike hunt

 

[Jeff]

(...)

Oh, they will. They can't resist the siren song of yet again
settling in a new land of plenty and promise where they can
be massa on their own plantation.

You mean like both domestic automakers?

Making products for new overseas markets is good business. The US auto
business is limited. Foreign people want cars. It is the way that a company
grows. You don't see Microsoft say to Europe, you are foreign, we don't want
your business. Boeing doesn't say to China, we don't want to build any
airplanes in Asia: Send your business to Airbus.

What's wrong with US manufacturers expanding by putting plants in other
countries to increase sales?

The other thing is that when they do that, they increase their diversity, so
that when one country is having a bad year, other countries will have good
years. Again, good for US businesses.

Jeff

 

[Jeff]

The unfortunate part is the average person has no idea that the reason our
manufacturing jobs are leaving the county is because of US consumer greed
and that THEY are ONE of the greedy consumers sending their own jobs off
shore LOL

Not just consumer greed. But stock market greed as well.

Jeff

 

[Jeff]

Eventually all cars will be made in China - just like shoes... but that
wont happen until the Chinese can keep their electricity on for more than
a day... infrastructure upgrades are coming in 7-10 years over there, and
you can count on cars being made there.

Actually, no. Cars will be continue to be made close to where they are sold.
The cost of labor per car keeps going down. Training and quality will
continue to play a big role. When auto companies invest in a new plant, it
will primarily be for production for people in that region, rather than for
people who are in other regions.

 

[Jeff]

Had it been proposed here in the U.S. it would never have been
constructed. Maybe this is the defining moment between China and the
U.S. We have deconstructed the U.S. with rules and bans. Having said
that, I'm all in favor of protecting the environment, but there is a
fine line which must be drawn and politics must not be a factor.

Politics not be a factor? On what planet do you expect that?

In this case, there is a thick line. And in the US, the environment and
American people would win.

Jeff

 

[Jeff]

A very small part of the whole problem. Otherwise Caterpillar, which
is also represented by the UAW, wouldn't be doing so well and wouldn't
be considered the best in its industry.

GM's trouble is 90% bad management. Either they hire Carlos Ghosn from
Renault to save them, or they eventually get taken over by Ford or
Magna, a parts manufacturer.

GM has a huge number of handicaps compared to their competitors, like a huge
number of retirees who depend on them for pensions and health care. Same
with Ford and DiamlerChrysler. The American auto industry has to be
restructured for it to survive. Quite frankly, I don't see the value of
keeping it around if it isn't. The same thing is happening for other
industries, like the airline industry and telecom industry.

Jeff

 

[Jeff]

Unions were a great idea way back when. Unfortunately, now the unions
still want the company to cover their employees from cradle to grave, even
when the cost of health care has gone through the roof, and is now the
major part of the cost of most autos made here under union rules.

I think unions are still needed. I think unions would do wonders for the
working conditions at Walmart.

That said, union rules and benefits have been a diaster for Ford, GM and DC.

As a self-employed person, I either have to pass these costs on to my
clients, or suck it up myself. When GM even tries to pass some of these
costs onto their employess they refuse to share in the cost. The
employees are the greedy ones, the ones who won't give an inch to keep
their jobs.

What would you do if you were a GM employee?

Let's be honest. Japanese manufacturers have no problem finding employees
to work in their plants in the US, with no unions.

And those workers would not want a pension?

Also, the idea of assembling cars in the US is to save money on importing
the cars. It's far cheaper to bring in the parts that are manufactured
from wherever, and assemble them here than to bring the entire car in.

Wherever is often domestic. The Toyota Sienna has the highest domestic
content of any US vehicle, excluding big trucks and probably Catapiler
products.

And, the poster is correct. Cadillac has made some awesome changes in
their line, American trucks will still be in demand, and the Corvette is
still one hell of a bargain when compared to any European sports car out
there.

My question is: Why is it that the US can't figure out what we want to
buy? Even though American manufacturers give incredible incentives to buy
US cars, we still pay more for the others.

Are we? Hondas and Toyotas get better gas milage and have higher resale
value. Cost is more than what you pay at the dealer.

Fortunately, Subaru has found a niche market, and the vast number of
people riding around in big SUV's would do well to buy an Outback, and
many of them do. For whatever reason the Japs and the Europeans seem to
make cars that we Americans want to buy. The US, for the most part, makes
cars and then has to convince us to buy them. They always seem to be one
step behind, and GM, with few exceptions, are always two steps behind.

Apparently the Ford 500, Freestyle and Fusion and pretty good cars. And the
F-150 is the best selling vehicle in the US. My 8.5 yr old Contour is going
strong for ove 125,000 mi (and I think will go strong for many more miles).

I don't like GM cars and trucks too much, but that is more personal
preference.

Jeff

 

[The Benev0lent dbu]

GM has a huge number of handicaps compared to their competitors, like a huge
number of retirees who depend on them for pensions and health care. Same
with Ford and DiamlerChrysler. The American auto industry has to be
restructured for it to survive. Quite frankly, I don't see the value of
keeping it around if it isn't. The same thing is happening for other
industries, like the airline industry and telecom industry.

Jeff

They are watching the Northwest airlines bankruptcy and how it goes
down. They will follow in it's footsteps.

 

[Lord Chain Smerker]

General Motors ----> (Rest in Pieces)

Who gives a **** about this nationalist corporate bullshit, GFM is a fucking
company thats all it is, big whoop it was big in the UDA, but it was just a
company, another oganization whose sole purpose was to sell shit to fucking
morons and steal hours away from its workers.

Who gives a **** if its fucking Japanesse, yankee or mexican its still the
same fucking story the world over, get the **** over it, fucking morons

 

[n5hsr]

I think unions are still needed. I think unions would do wonders for the
working conditions at Walmart.

That said, union rules and benefits have been a diaster for Ford, GM and
DC.


What would you do if you were a GM employee?


And those workers would not want a pension?


Wherever is often domestic. The Toyota Sienna has the highest domestic
content of any US vehicle, excluding big trucks and probably Catapiler
products.


Are we? Hondas and Toyotas get better gas milage and have higher resale
value. Cost is more than what you pay at the dealer.


Apparently the Ford 500, Freestyle and Fusion and pretty good cars. And
the F-150 is the best selling vehicle in the US. My 8.5 yr old Contour is
going strong for ove 125,000 mi (and I think will go strong for many more
miles).

I don't like GM cars and trucks too much, but that is more personal
preference.

Jeff

Dear Jeff,

Having worked as an hourly employee and having had management in the family,
I can tell you what a union would do for Wal-mart: Less than nothing.
Wal-mart would have a gigantic going out of business sale. Sam Walton
would have rather died than go union. And the people running the company
now are of the same mind. But Sam had good wages and benefits back in the
day. He actually RAISED the standard of living for his employees in some of
the small towns he first built stores in.

Also, Unions have been a disaster for the Public Schools. I watched the
standards slide quite a bit in just the 13 years I was in public school. I
have some friends that recently came out of public school and they are
telling me stuff that would scare people. It's becoming increasingly about
indoctrination. And our governor here in Illinois wants to push for 2 years
of pre-school for all, so they can indoctrinate the little kiddies more.
It's not mandatory, yet, but neither was Kindergarten.

Charles of Schaumburg.

 

[Rev. 11D Meow!]

May 'Your Job' live long and prosper.


ha ha ha

 

[karinhall]

Who gives a **** about this nationalist corporate bullshit, GFM is a fucking
company thats all it is, big whoop it was big in the UDA, but it was just a
company, another oganization whose sole purpose was to sell shit to fucking
morons and steal hours away from its workers.

Who gives a **** if its fucking Japanesse, yankee or mexican its still the
same fucking story the world over, get the **** over it, fucking morons

IDIOT!! ROFL

 

[Gosi]

A very small part of the whole problem. Otherwise Caterpillar, which
is also represented by the UAW, wouldn't be doing so well and wouldn't
be considered the best in its industry.

Caterpillar is beginning its slide

Foreigners are making better machines and Cat is facing the same
downhill future as GM

GM's trouble is 90% bad management. Either they hire Carlos Ghosn from
Renault to save them, or they eventually get taken over by Ford or
Magna, a parts manufacturer.

It is too late to save GM

some parts of it might be usable after the bankruptcy if it comes clean

 

[Pablo]

"its
the union thats totally wiping out their profits. unions nowadays do
more
harm than good."

HMMM...Lucky for the greedy corporate types that those Chinese workers
LOVE to work 16 hours a day, in hazardous and dangerous conditions,
fueled by power that spews huge amounts of pollution (There is just so
much hydro) And they LOVE to live in conditions sub par to western
counterparts, FOR JUST PENNIES A DAY!!!

Us DIRTY ROTTEN union members who take a small percentage of the
corporate profit (who the **** was ACTUALLY making the product/profit
anyway??) and by supporting our families and living our lives, ALL THE
FUCKING MONEY GETS PASSED ON, to the rest of the economy. Ever hear how
every dollar earned helps support 10 to 20 other businesses??

If corporations had their way us DIRTY ROTTEN union members would be
working for Chinese wages and only the guys at the top would be getting
the REAL money.

OH, by the way...If you are NOT union and you are NOT the owner of the
company, you can thank your local union members for dragging UP the
wages in your chosen profession, because if they did not pay your sorry
SCAB ass the union scale, YOU would be working for wages like our
Chinese counterparts, PENNIES INSTEAD OF DOLLARS...

NO ONE BUT OWNERS OF A COMPANY HAS ANY RIGHT TO BITCH ABOUT A UNION.

Friggn' scabs need to be boiled in oil...