R.I.P. General Motors (1931-2006)

[Jason]

I would say what a sad day for America, when the American consumer helps in
creating a situation where other Americans, including their own children and
grand children, have so many fewer jobs available were they can make a good
living.

If we American keep exporting our jobs, as fast as we are today, the only
skill their children will need is how to say, "Do you want fries with that?"
or "Welcome to WalMart."

mike hunt

Mike,
Please stop top posting.
The problems that GM and Ford are having are their own faults. If they had
been making cars that were made as well as Honda cars and Toyota are made
for the past 20 or more years, they would not be having any problems
selling their vehicles. Almost everyone now knows that Honda cars and
Toyota cars have more quality than cars made by Ford and GM. I don't blame
the workers that work in Ford and GM factories. I blame the people in
management positions at Ford and GM.
Jason

 

[Lee Florack]

I would say what a sad day for America, when the American consumer helps in
creating a situation where other Americans, including their own children and
grand children, have so many fewer jobs available were they can make a good
living.

If we American keep exporting our jobs, as fast as we are today, the only
skill their children will need is how to say, "Do you want fries with that?"
or "Welcome to WalMart."

When the American consumer is given poor(er) choices when buying
from American companies, they have little choice. What would be
even more unfortunate than what you say above is that we Americans
continue to buy inferior products with the misguided idea that it
will save jobs. We are in a global market. Buying American just to
buy American does nothing but attempt to avoid the inevitable. Buy
the best products at the best price and the manufacturers will
actually try to get better.

 

[Lee Florack]

Mike,
Please stop top posting.
The problems that GM and Ford are having are their own faults. If they had
been making cars that were made as well as Honda cars and Toyota are made
for the past 20 or more years, they would not be having any problems
selling their vehicles. Almost everyone now knows that Honda cars and
Toyota cars have more quality than cars made by Ford and GM. I don't blame
the workers that work in Ford and GM factories. I blame the people in
management positions at Ford and GM.
Jason

Yes, MOST people do realize that Honda and Toyota make higher
quality cars than GM and Ford. Their are exceptions however.

 

[Jeff]

I would say what a sad day for America, when the American consumer helps in
creating a situation where other Americans, including their own children
and grand children, have so many fewer jobs available were they can make a
good living.

You mean like when people buy at a store where the average worker makes less
than $10 an hour?

If we American keep exporting our jobs, as fast as we are today, the only
skill their children will need is how to say, "Do you want fries with
that?" or "Welcome to WalMart."

Actually, there are plenty of good jobs out there. Science and math teachers
are in high demand. In fact, there are many people from the Phillipines
coming into the US to help fill those jobs. There are a lot of high tech
jobs for computer programmers and other IT people, as well. There will be an
increasing need for doctors and nurses to treat all the undocumented
immigrants who can't cross back and forth accross the border and have chosen
to stay in the US as well as the old folks who need more medical care.

Jeff

 

[Jeff]

Mike,
Please stop top posting.
The problems that GM and Ford are having are their own faults. If they had
been making cars that were made as well as Honda cars and Toyota are made
for the past 20 or more years, they would not be having any problems
selling their vehicles.

Mike is saying that they don't have many problems selling their vehicles.
And they don't. Of course, they do have problems selling vehicles at higher
prices.

Almost everyone now knows that Honda cars and
Toyota cars have more quality than cars made by Ford and GM.

Depends on the model. My Ford Contour has almost 130,000 mi on it and has
had very few problems (one CV joint and two wheel bearings are the only
things excluding regular maitainance that I had to replace).

I don't blame
the workers that work in Ford and GM factories. I blame the people in
management positions at Ford and GM.

And I thank the imports. Because DC, GM and Ford had to compete with them,
they improved their quality. Otherwise, we would still have low-qualtiy cars
from the big 4.

Jeff

 

[razz]

And the people that believe that shit. are morons. I know first hand that
Honda, and Toys are no better than domestics. I was a mechanic at a Toy
dealer. And they had just as many vehicles in their bays as the Gm, and Ford
dealers across the street. Come to think of it, the domestics outnumber the
Jap shit 10 - 1, and yet Toyo had just as many vehicles in their bays as
the others. What does that tell ya dipshit!

 

[Jeff]

The Yahoo stock market pages have "Historical prices" on the side bar
menu. Click on it and download it to a spreadsheet for easier
reading.

Here is the page for Honda:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=HMC

The Adjusted Price tells you what your basis would be if you had
invested on that day and reinvested the dividends.

Cool. Thanks.

Jeff

 

[Jason]

Yes, MOST people do realize that Honda and Toyota make higher
quality cars than GM and Ford. Their are exceptions however.

I agree with you. One exception is the full sized pickups made
by Ford and GM. I have yet to talk to the owner of one of those
trucks that has complained about the quality of their trucks.
There may be other exceptions that I don't know about.
Jason

 

[Lee Florack]

And the people that believe that shit. are morons. I know first hand that
Honda, and Toys are no better than domestics. I was a mechanic at a Toy
dealer. And they had just as many vehicles in their bays as the Gm, and Ford
dealers across the street. Come to think of it, the domestics outnumber the
Jap shit 10 - 1, and yet Toyo had just as many vehicles in their bays as
the others. What does that tell ya dipshit!

It tells me that I'm waisting my time trying to have a reasonable
conversation with you.

 

[dizzy]

Mike,
Please stop top posting.

"Mike Hunt" is a proven liar and LOL asshole. Like most top-posting
idiots, he's lazy and selfish, and will not change his ways to help
others. Plonk him and you'll miss nothing of value.

 

[Jeff]

And the people that believe that shit. are morons. I know first hand that
Honda, and Toys are no better than domestics. I was a mechanic at a Toy
dealer. And they had just as many vehicles in their bays as the Gm, and
Ford
dealers across the street. Come to think of it, the domestics outnumber
the
Jap shit 10 - 1, and yet Toyo had just as many vehicles in their bays as
the others. What does that tell ya dipshit!

That there are even more domestics at local shops not associated with the
dealers.

Jeff

 

[Jim Higgins]

And the people that believe that shit. are morons. I know first hand that
Honda, and Toys are no better than domestics. I was a mechanic at a Toy
dealer. And they had just as many vehicles in their bays as the Gm, and
Ford
dealers across the street. Come to think of it, the domestics outnumber
the
Jap shit 10 - 1, and yet Toyo had just as many vehicles in their bays as
the others. What does that tell ya dipshit!

If you think that Hondas and Toyotas (not "Toys", that is the mark of the
ignorant lout) are no better that the domestics then you have been living in
the '60s on a permanent basis. Toyota and Honda have long since left GM and
Ford in the dust. GM will soon be in bankruptcy and Ford will probably
follow quickly. Read Consumer Reports to get an *objective* quality
evaluation. Yes the domestics have improved but NOT across the board-their
quality is still spotty. Then GM and Ford have a *lot* of former customers
that they have screwed over that have very, very long memories of shabby
treatment by GM and Ford. Those folks will never, repeat never, buy from GM
or Ford again-their First thoughts will be about Toyota or Honda.

 

[Jeff]

(...)

If you think that Hondas and Toyotas (not "Toys", that is the mark of the
ignorant lout) are no better that the domestics then you have been living
in the '60s on a permanent basis. Toyota and Honda have long since left
GM and Ford in the dust. GM will soon be in bankruptcy and Ford will
probably follow quickly.

I am not so sure GM or Ford will go into bancruptcy. I am not sure they
won't, either.

Read Consumer Reports to get an *objective* quality evaluation.

I disagree. I think that Consumer Reports is biased against American car
companies. American car companies have better qualtiy than Consumer Reports
gives them credit for.

Yes the domestics have improved but NOT across the board-their quality is
still spotty. Then GM and Ford have a *lot* of former customers that they
have screwed over that have very, very long memories of shabby treatment
by GM and Ford. Those folks will never, repeat never, buy from GM or Ford
again-their First thoughts will be about Toyota or Honda.

Or Kia, Mazda, Nissan, DC, Volvo, Saab, VW, Porshe, Audi, etc. The point is
that there is a lot of choice out there. For Ford and GM to keep up, they
will have to continue to improve quality and design.

Jeff

 

[Bonehenge]

I agree with you. One exception is the full sized pickups made
by Ford and GM. I have yet to talk to the owner of one of those
trucks that has complained about the quality of their trucks.
There may be other exceptions that I don't know about.

How come I've read professional reviewer comments like "spotty build
quality (Edmunds on the F250)" on consumer sites and magazines about
Ford and Chevy full-size trucks? I personally know several locals who
have had some serious ABS problems with Silverados and Tahoes.

Full size truck drivers tend to be very, very brand loyal. It's not
unusual to hear them describe themselves as "Chevy Men", etc... I
doubt many of them would actually admit their vehicle HAD a problem,
others wouldn't know a high-quality vehicle if it ran them over. On
a side note, many of these same people consider Harley Davidson as
quality construction and make fun of BMW, Ducati, Triumph, and other
amazing new motorcycles. <G>

I couldn't believe how many full sized truck owners called me crazy
because I asked my dealer to track down a rattle on my new Tacoma.
Over and over, I heard, "it's a truck" from full-sized truck owners,
who called me "overly picky" and "anal". I also head "It's a truck,
trucks make noises"... No kidding!

My very-early 2005 Tacoma had a cab mount issue and noisy rear springs
that Toyota corrected on the running line and TSB'd affected trucks.
My noises were fixed without a fight, and the truck is dead-perfect
now. "It's a TOYOTA, it SHOULDN'T MAKE NOISES!" The dealer
agreed! <G>

 

[Jason]

How come I've read professional reviewer comments like "spotty build
quality (Edmunds on the F250)" on consumer sites and magazines about
Ford and Chevy full-size trucks? I personally know several locals who
have had some serious ABS problems with Silverados and Tahoes.

Full size truck drivers tend to be very, very brand loyal. It's not
unusual to hear them describe themselves as "Chevy Men", etc... I
doubt many of them would actually admit their vehicle HAD a problem,
others wouldn't know a high-quality vehicle if it ran them over. On
a side note, many of these same people consider Harley Davidson as
quality construction and make fun of BMW, Ducati, Triumph, and other
amazing new motorcycles. <G>

I couldn't believe how many full sized truck owners called me crazy
because I asked my dealer to track down a rattle on my new Tacoma.
Over and over, I heard, "it's a truck" from full-sized truck owners,
who called me "overly picky" and "anal". I also head "It's a truck,
trucks make noises"... No kidding!

My very-early 2005 Tacoma had a cab mount issue and noisy rear springs
that Toyota corrected on the running line and TSB'd affected trucks.
My noises were fixed without a fight, and the truck is dead-perfect
now. "It's a TOYOTA, it SHOULDN'T MAKE NOISES!" The dealer
agreed! <G>

Edmunds survey included lots of people so trust their judgement or survey
results more than me. I have only talked to several people about their
trucks. It's natural for people to say great things about their cars and
trucks.
If I was going to buy a pick-up--it would be a pick-up made by Toyota.
I'm gald that the noise problem was fixed without a fight. I had an issue
with a Dodge pick-up and the service manager refused to solve my problem.
I have never again owned a Dodge, GM vehicle or Ford vehicle. I now
own a Honda Accord.
Jason

 

[Ray O]

Ray,
One of the other posters indicated that dealers can give special deals
(low prices) for the fleet owners that lease 5 or more cars at the same
time. The point was that Ford and GMC grant those special deals but Honda
and Toyota would not provide those same deals. If the poster was correct,
that could be one of the reasons why most the owners of fleets lease Ford
and Chevy cars instead of Honda and Toyota cars. I know that when I rented
a car--almost every car on the lot was a Ford or Chevy. The city that I
live in leases lots of cars and all of them are Fords or GM vehicles. Was
the poster correct in relation to the special deals mentioned in my first
sentence?
Jason

I am not aware of Honda's fleet policies so I cannot speak for them. Toyota
does provide some fleet incentives but the price of a Corolla is still
higher than the price of a GM or Ford product that is the same size and a
rental car company that keeps its inventory for only a year will want to
invest as little money as possible. The other part of the equation is
buyback programs where the manufacturer buys back a percentage of the
inventory from rental car companies. Toyota was a late entry into this
program. The rental car companies will sell the cars in the a best
condition through their used car outlets, dispose of the rest through auto
auctions and factory buy back programs.

 

[BlagooBlanaa]

you got it - the big corps are the modern day feudal warlords
loyal only to themselves, they epitomize the word TRAITOR

and anyone who deals in or with their stock is a traitor too...

dump it

only buy shares and products from companies that are not traitorous ingrates
that have grown fat on the labor of citizens only to screw them
blind when they see the fat profits available from slave labor overseas

pretty soon *you* will be a slave too, if you let them keep going

ps: do you think the majority of baby boomers are going to get retirement
bennys?


not a hope - it is cheaper for corps to run overseas and not pay a penny

 

[Jeff]

I am not aware of Honda's fleet policies so I cannot speak for them.
Toyota does provide some fleet incentives but the price of a Corolla is
still higher than the price of a GM or Ford product that is the same size
and a rental car company that keeps its inventory for only a year will
want to invest as little money as possible.

Part of the cost that they consider is the money they will get for the car
when they sell it.

 

[Mike Hunter]

Buy
the best products at the best price and the manufacturers will actually
try to get better.

 

[Eugene Nine]

Ray,
One of the other posters indicated that dealers can give special deals
(low prices) for the fleet owners that lease 5 or more cars at the same
time. The point was that Ford and GMC grant those special deals but Honda
and Toyota would not provide those same deals. If the poster was correct,
that could be one of the reasons why most the owners of fleets lease Ford
and Chevy cars instead of Honda and Toyota cars. I know that when I rented
a car--almost every car on the lot was a Ford or Chevy. The city that I
live in leases lots of cars and all of them are Fords or GM vehicles. Was
the poster correct in relation to the special deals mentioned in my first
sentence?
Jason

Having to currently drive a rental due to my truck being in the body shop
because a couple kids hit it while parked I was surprised to see there are
a lot more than GM or Ford in the rental car lots. They gave me a 2005 Kia
Optima and it is the biggest piece of junk I have ever been in, I don't see
why people bother to buy them.