Gas Rage In Staten Island

[RichC]

They are practically paying people to take them off the lot now!

Ken

They just continued their special discount the other day on one of the SUV's
....made me laugh, but I'm sure there are some folks out there who will still
buy one.

 

[RichC]

The best answer is to reduce consumption, and that isn't that difficult.
Most production goes to gasoline, and a lot of gasoline is used for the
short drives easily replaced by pedal power.

We haven't heard a lot of talk about rationing as of yet...That would solve
a lot of the panic buying.

 

[SocSecTrainWreck]

How about getting ANWR on line. We Alaskan's are trying to help....but a few
environmental groups keeps us from doing just that!

The Alaska National Wildlife Refuge won't help to any significant
degree, but the governor of Montana has an interesting idea: convert
coal to gasoline and fuel oil. He says the process becomes cost
effective with oil at $32/barrel, and that Montana has enough coal to
supply all US oil-derived energy needs for 40 years. Don't know what
that will do to Montana's ecology, but at least there won't be any
supertankers sinking, and I like to think that a Democratic governor is
not proposing to destroy his state with strip mining. Supposedly this
kind of conversion produces relatively clean fuel as sulphur in coal is
removed by the process. Still, it dumps just as much carbon into the
air.

If this process is cost effective at $32/barrel and oil is selling at
~$70/barrel, what is the incentive for oil companies to make an
investment in the technology? It seems like it would have the effect of
suddenly cutting the value of their reserves in half.

The plants are expensive but there is a shortage of refining capacity
now. Maybe, instead of building new oil refineries, it makes more sense
to build coal conversion plants. BTW, the US has huge coal deposits-
it's the Saudi Arabia of coal- which would certainly put the shoe on
the other foot in a few decades, assuming we didn't incinerate the
Earth with all that CO2.

 

[Ken M]

Yeah I remember seeing that on t.v. yesterday. And yeah and the people
that run out and buy one are the same people that will be complaining
when gas hits $5.00 a gallon and doesn't go down!

Ken

 

[Jasper Janssen]

You're right -- if the leading indicator is the number of these things
parked alongside the county roads with the "For Sale" signs in the windows.


Damn skippy they will. I'll bet it's pretty hard to find a 2004 Toyota
Camry.

Do you seriously consider a Camry an econobox? Around here, a Camry is an
overly large, unpopular sedan, and a Corolla (one size down) is a popular
midsize one. Econoboxes are things like Daihatsu Cuore and other Geo Metro
sized vehicles.

Jasper

 

[Ken M]

Well the coal in the ground, and getting it out largely depends on how
deep it is I think. Strip mining absolutely destroys the envronment.
And shaft mining is not very good for the workers, mines flood, fires
and explosions are pretty common.

Ken

 

[Bob the Cow]

Do you seriously consider a Camry an econobox? Around here, a Camry is an
overly large, unpopular sedan, and a Corolla (one size down) is a popular
midsize one. Econoboxes are things like Daihatsu Cuore and other Geo Metro
sized vehicles.

One man's floor is another man's ceiling.

Where I live is still, and will remain, the land of pick-em-up trux.
Whatever gas costs, people will drive the pick-em-ups. It's a matter of
relative scale. If I drove one of your wunderkars, I would soon have to
look up the past tense of Daihatsu.

Where I live, it snows up to our asses. I often must get out before the
plow has come in. A Camry is about the smallest car I will drive. Even
ignoring my 37" inseam, a Camry is where the curves (luxury, comfort,
practicality, economy) cross for many boomers like me. I've never been
stuck in the snow with a Camry. I did have to give them up for several
years because Toyota redesigned the dashboard to keep my foot off the pedal,
but they came to their senses in recent years.

Why is the Toyota Camry one of the most frequently-stolen cars?

I just checked my dealer, and, sure enough, the used Camrys are mostly
spoken for, at a rate unprecedented in recent history. He does have some
Corollas, though.

 

[Mark Hickey]

That would be a good outcome, but if the general populous on your side of
the pond is anything like the general populous over here; it won't. When we
had the fuel blockades a few years ago, there were *serious* fuel shortages.
Cycling was wonderful - as the number of cars on the roads decreased
*noticably* as people really did limit their motoring. As soon as the
blockades stopped - back to normal...

What we're going through is actually a pretty predictable cycle -
every 20 years or so we outrun the supply, the price goes up, a bunch
more supply comes on line, and the price goes back down. We're in the
midst of a bit of a "perfect storm" with the hurricane in the Gulf...
hopefully it'll be enough to get people out of their land yachts. My
wife tells me that people are actually driving the speed limit here in
the Phoenix, Arizona area these days (hard to imagine). The good news
is her replacement ACL is almost fully functional so she'll be riding
the bike to work again soon.

This morning I filled the car with diesel. Price 94.9p/litre. If my
mathematics is correct, this equates to £4.32 per UK gallon, or £3.58 per US
gallon, which is roughly $6.55 a US gallon and this is normal price over
here. People are not noticeably using their cars any less as fuel prices go
up - people cut back in other areas first, I think. The filling station
forecourt was just as full as normal on a Friday morning.

Ouch. I've lived in places with gas prices like that - fortunately, I
didn't drive much then either. I put $50 in my Jeep a couple days ago
(but it was REALLY bone dry). The good news is that it gets about
24mpg (5 speed, six cylinder). The better news is that the tank will
last me a month since I ride the bike most places. ;-)

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

 

[Mark Hickey]

Mark Hickey wrote:

What are you, some kinda communist?

I'm a pragmatist.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

 

[Mark Hickey]

that there is only enough oil there for about ten years. Plus I have
also heard / read that the real problem really has to do with supply
and demand, the supply that the refineries can produce. They were
operating at 95% capacity BEFORE the storm. Now Katrina knocks a few
off line for a while the MV driving world is not going to like the
results.

Exactly. OPEC's been saying the same thing for a long time - they can
increase production but it won't help anything.

I hope those who criticized GWB for filling up the Strategic Petroleum
Reserve are having second thoughts at least (though I doubt it...).

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

 

[Skip]

The best answer is to reduce consumption, and that isn't that difficult.
Most production goes to gasoline, and a lot of gasoline is used for the
short drives easily replaced by pedal power.

Ted

Reducing consumption won't do anything to lower the price of gas, just
the opposite. If the oil companies sell less gas they make less
profit so they will raise the price to make up the difference.

Skip

 

[Michael Press]

I'm a pragmatist.

Well, pragmatism is good in theory ...

 

[Kovie]

What are you, some kinda communist?

What are you, some kind of idiot? If Mark's a communist, then we need more
of 'em in the US!

Put another way, come up with a way to make a decent living selling
top-quality Ti frames for under $800 ($700 until quite recently), offering
excellent service to boot (or, alternatively, an SUV that gets 40+ mpg), and
I'll gladly call you a capitalist pig.

Oh yeah, I forgot, it's you...

Kovie
(e-mail address removed)

 

[Jan Lindstrom]

"wafflycat" <waffles*$*A**T*v21net$*££*D*O*T*co*D£$£*O*T*uk> wrote:


Ouch. I've lived in places with gas prices like that - fortunately, I
didn't drive much then either. I put $50 in my Jeep a couple days ago
(but it was REALLY bone dry). The good news is that it gets about
24mpg (5 speed, six cylinder). The better news is that the tank will
last me a month since I ride the bike most places. ;-)

The point is that low fuel prices and the tradition of using the car for
everything have made you design cities that simply require a lot of
driving.

In Europe, the high fuel taxes have at least hampered designing
spread-out dysfunctional suburbs. They do exist, but not to the
ridiculous extent of U.S.

Since housing price inflation drive your economy right now I see no
other option than going to hell in first class.

Jan

 

[Bill Sornson]

What are you, some kind of idiot? If Mark's a communist, then we need
more of 'em in the US!

Put another way, come up with a way to make a decent living selling
top-quality Ti frames for under $800 ($700 until quite recently),
offering excellent service to boot (or, alternatively, an SUV that
gets 40+ mpg), and I'll gladly call you a capitalist pig.

Oh yeah, I forgot, it's you...

Whoosh.

 

[Ken M]

Apparently some people don't listen. Because if they did they wouldn't
get all excited about tapping the reserves, it's not going to help, the
only thing that will help short term is a reduction in demand.

Ken

 

[Bob the Cow]

I hope those who criticized GWB for filling up the Strategic Petroleum
Reserve are having second thoughts at least (though I doubt it...).

Your doubt is well-founded given that many critics of GWB have yet to have
their first.

 

[SocSecTrainWreck]

Well the coal in the ground, and getting it out largely depends on how
deep it is I think. Strip mining absolutely destroys the envronment.
And shaft mining is not very good for the workers, mines flood, fires
and explosions are pretty common.

Well, something's gotta give.

 

[SocSecTrainWreck]

Put another way, come up with a way to make a decent living selling
top-quality Ti frames for under $800 ($700 until quite recently), offering
excellent service to boot

Titanium frames for the proletariat!

Now if only the government would subsidize my bicycling budget.

 

[Jasper Janssen]

In Europe, the high fuel taxes have at least hampered designing
spread-out dysfunctional suburbs. They do exist, but not to the
ridiculous extent of U.S.

Well, we've got suburban sprawl in Europe too, it's just that it's scaled
by just about the factor of 2-4 that the fuel prices have been skewed by.
Well, and of course here in .nl there's damn little room for anything but
tightly-packed rows of housing developments.

Oh, and energy costs *also* impact house design in general. Free-standing
houses have something like 50-70% more surface area to lose heat (or cold,
in AC-using countries) to. Which means people around here tend to avoid
them.


Jasper