Automatic vs. Manual

[Losiho]

The manual tranny is ALWAYS driving all four wheels. The Automatic
isn't, it's only driving the front wheels on clean, dry pavement.

Bullshit.

 

[Felix]

Thanks to all. At the time of purchase last month, the dealer had the
manual RS 2.5 in stock, but I was reading literature on automatics at
the dealer and the marketing dep't at SOA seems to really stress the
difference between the manual's simple 50-50 split and use a lot of
fancy words (to me) to describe the way the automatic works. They made
the automatic seem far superior to something that's stuck in a simple
50-50 ratio.

I just moved to the high Sierras and needed a reliable and economical
year-round commuter car. Many of my new neighbors have Subbies, which
led me to the purchase and to place my gas guzzling full-size 4WD onto
the "B" list..

One thing that has always stuck with me was that in my youth, I can
remember always being able to push start a manual transmission vehicle
with a dead battery and get it going. I haven't done that in many years,
but I seem to have always needed it to happen to every one of my manual
tranny cars that I have owned at least once in their lifetimes.

The 2005 RS5 manual does get better gas mileage than the automatic
counterpart according to the U.S. Subaru website (23/30 vs 22/28). This
may be due to the relatively "unsophisticated" nature of the least
expensive automatic that Subbie makes.

I'll stop questioning my purchase decision at least until I break my
right leg skiing!! Blizzaks are in my future. Thank you.

 

[Bonehenge]

Bullshit.

Go ahead, tell us how it all works.

Barry

 

[Yousuf Khan]

One thing that has always stuck with me was that in my youth, I can
remember always being able to push start a manual transmission vehicle
with a dead battery and get it going. I haven't done that in many
years, but I seem to have always needed it to happen to every one of
my manual tranny cars that I have owned at least once in their
lifetimes.

You can still do that with a manual Subie. I've done it myself (usually with
a downhill gravity push rather than a push-start, though that's obviously
still possible). I've been able to start it both in 1st and reverse,
depending whether the car was facing up or down the hill.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Go ahead, tell us how it all works.

Well, actually, depending on which Subie you get (model, model year, etc.),
you will have at least a little bit of power going to the rear-wheels. In
most literature I've seen, there is a 90:10 front:rear powersplit in the
default position (others argue that there is a 60:40 or even a 40:60 ratio,
but regardless). This ten percent to the rear might simply be as a result of
the clutch pack never fully disengaging and putting a little drag on the
rear wheels at all times. When the clutch pack hardens its hold, it may firm
upto a 50:50 powersplit.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Thanks to all. At the time of purchase last month, the dealer had the
manual RS 2.5 in stock, but I was reading literature on automatics at
the dealer and the marketing dep't at SOA seems to really stress the
difference between the manual's simple 50-50 split and use a lot of
fancy words (to me) to describe the way the automatic works. They made
the automatic seem far superior to something that's stuck in a simple
50-50 ratio.

Well, think about it this way, a 50:50 split is exactly the split you would
get when an automatic's central clutchpack hardens upto its maximum level.
So with a manual, you're actually starting out with the split that the
automatic aspires to.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Chris Phillipo]

Subject: Re: Automatic vs. Manual
From: "Yousuf Khan" <(e-mail address removed)>
Newsgroups: alt.autos.subaru


I doubt that the manual gets better gas mileage than the automatic. First of
all, these days, all automatics have lock-up torque converters, which
effectively eliminates inefficiency of the slippage in the torque converter.
Second, I get the feeling that the manuals are setup more for performance
than fuel efficiency. At 60mph, my 5 speed OBW 2.5L is rotating at around
3000rpm in 5th, when it should be doing 2500rpm or less in most other cars.

Yousuf Khan

Even when manuals do better on paper, you'd have to be living in a
retirment home in Florida to get those better numbers in real life.
Who's going to consistanly shift at 3500 rpm when there's 3000 more to
use on the tach.

 

[Losiho]

Go ahead, tell us how it all works.

Barry

No Bazza, you can to the Subaru website yourself and read up on it (Subaru
Australia's website has a detailed description). In case you're wondering,
the static ratio is 60/40 front to rear for my Outback. If the static ratio
delivers at least 40% drive to the rear wheels, then how can you say it's
"front wheel drive" on clean dry pavement ?

 

[uglymoney]

Even when manuals do better on paper, you'd have to be living in a
retirment home in Florida to get those better numbers in real life.
Who's going to consistanly shift at 3500 rpm when there's 3000 more to
use on the tach.

Huh?

I shift before 3000 rpm all the time, if I am driving for mileage that
is.

Spirited driving is something entirely different. I shift later only
when I am driving with spirit, or have a need to accelerate quickly.
Otherwise, I drive for mileage, and I all but gaurantee that I do
better around town than an auto with my stick. I am 33 years old btw,
and nowhere near retired.

Yousuf Khan is right about the final drive. 5th turns too fast on the
highway. Its a shame.

nate
02 OBW mt3
32k miles

 

[Henry Paul]

Generally where do you shift? I find the engine to be sluggish if I shift
too soon. I have a 2.2 though so not quite as powerful as the 2.5

 

[Spinifex]

AUSTRALIA

David... can u explain, for us non-techno's, the terms you are using
please?? And possibly, if anyone can, a bit of a descriptive as to HOW
these functions work???


VDC = ??? Viscous Distribution Control ???
VTC = ??? Variable Traction Control ???

Total guesses there

Cheers
Spinifex

 

[Henry Paul]

You can go to www.subaru.com for more information. They even have little
animated demonstrations to show you how each system works.

 

[Yousuf Khan]

I shift before 3000 rpm all the time, if I am driving for mileage that
is.

I shift around 3000 myself. In fact most of the time that I'm over 3000, I'm
usually in fifth!

Yousuf Khan is right about the final drive. 5th turns too fast on the
highway. Its a shame.

I think we're being short-changed (literally in this case) a bit on the
Outbacks. The same engine in an Impreza seems to be doing about 2500 at the
same speed and gear.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Yousuf Khan]

No Bazza, you can to the Subaru website yourself and read up on it
(Subaru Australia's website has a detailed description). In case
you're wondering, the static ratio is 60/40 front to rear for my
Outback. If the static ratio delivers at least 40% drive to the rear
wheels, then how can you say it's "front wheel drive" on clean dry
pavement ?

Depending on the market and model, it looks as if Subaru gives the front or
rear bias a different ratio. Most of the heavier cars, such as the Legacies
and Legacy Outbacks have a 90:10 front/rear ratio. I think the WRX automatic
came with a 60:40 front/rear. And apparently the Australian models come with
that reversed to 40:60.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Spinifex]

LOL

Damned spellcheck again.... " su R prised"

Spinifex

 

[Henry Paul]

My 2.2 Impreza 5 speed turns 3k plus in 5th on the highway

 

[Losiho]

Depending on the market and model, it looks as if Subaru gives the front or
rear bias a different ratio. Most of the heavier cars, such as the Legacies
and Legacy Outbacks have a 90:10 front/rear ratio. I think the WRX automatic
came with a 60:40 front/rear. And apparently the Australian models come with
that reversed to 40:60.

Both the auto Forester and Outback on the Australian market have a static
ratio of 60:40 front to rear.

 

[Losiho]

AUSTRALIA

David... can u explain, for us non-techno's, the terms you are using
please?? And possibly, if anyone can, a bit of a descriptive as to HOW
these functions work???


VDC = ??? Viscous Distribution Control ???
VTC = ??? Variable Traction Control ???

VDC = Vehicle Dynamics Control - kind of like stability control to reduce
bordyroll and oversteer/understeer

VTD = Variable Torque Distribution, used on the Outback H6 / 3.0R and WRX
auto. Static ratio I think is 45:55 front to rear.

 

[Rick Courtright]

I agree with you on everything but the mileage.

Many automatic Subies get equal or better gas mileage than the manual

Woody pretty much said what I wanted to regarding why a stick's a better
choice than an auto for the purposes the OP mentioned, but on this
mileage thing: do the automatics get equal/better mileage in REAL life,
or just on paper with some made up EPA test? It's been my experience a
manual beats an auto for mileage every time, all else being equal.

Rick

 

[Rick Courtright]

the dealer and the marketing dep't at SOA seems to really stress the
difference between the manual's simple 50-50 split and use a lot of

You said it all with "marketing dep't." These are the same guys who
advertise "symmetrical all wheel drive." To me that means 50-50. As the
owner of a 4wd Subie, with a 5 spd, where you switch it yourself, I
think 50-50's the way it should be.

As others have said, I don't like the computer doing my thinking. If it
were any good at it, it would put things in the gear I want when I want
it, shift where I want to shift, etc. Haven't found one yet that thinks
like I do...

Rick