Yes another Winter Tire question

[Scooby Don't]

Man! Where do YOU live where you can get on the highway in the snow and
people are driving 20 mph???? Around here you could die in the snow from the
jackasses that don't know you shouldn't go 70 mph on it. I often see them
off the road further down the pike after they've passed me because I'm
driving a safe speed and they aren't. I think I'm going to check into the
Hakka Q's. What is the difference between the Q's and WS tires from Nokian?

many parts of Rt 495 and Rt 3 in Mass during bad snow you'll be lucky
to do 20 mph. Of course during regular traffic you're also lucky to do
20 mph. Once it clears up then yeah everyone is back to 80 mph like
normal.
I used the Hakka Q's and they are a more severe tire for snow and ice.
The WR Passenger is better in the dry and wet but not quite as good in
snow and ice. The Hakka series is for bad long winter use The Hakka
Q's on hot pavement like in late spring feel like you are driving on
Jello.
If you mean the Mass Pike then yeah it's crazy big time even during a
Bad Storm which is why the Pike is always on the News.

 

[Tony Hwang]

Nope it sure wasn't speed. granted on dry highway I sure keep up with
traffic but I slid through intersections at like 2mph car would be all
but stopped and the damn ABS would go off and the car would slide. If
you live in a city with a lot of hills you don't drive fast. But that
Damn ABS goes off over nothing at all even in the dry. I've hit a few
bumps and it's gone off while slowing down and ended up going past
stop signs. The ABS in the WRX is the worst I have ever seen in any
vehicle I've owned. Dealer says it's normal. Well I really like the
WRX it's powerful enough and big enough taht I'm covered but the damn
ABS is so awful that I probably won't buy another one unless they
reduce it's oversensitivity.
On the highway I rarely speed in the bad stuff I just get out there
and keep up with everyone else who's going 20mph. I'm hoping better
tires will help. The biggest problem is just before i stop on snow the
ABS kicks in at the last second and it doesn't shut off real quick
either. Sometimes it stays on even after I'm back and accelerating
again.

My boy drives souped up MY00 Impreza RS. He drives on 17 inch Avid in
summer. I never experienced anything negative on it's ABS or tires. In
winter he is on 16 inch steel rims and Michelin. On Michelin steering
feels mushy and ride is little cushy cushy but no major complaints.
He has a set of adjustable KYB and heavier sway bars, metal links with
Teflon bushings, also Strut tower bars front and rear.
Tony

 

[Diva]

No I'm in the Detroit area, except north of the city out in the sticks where the highway is more like the autobahn as far as speeds. In the winter there is little if any treatment on the roads when I leave for work at 6 am, so I need the best snow and ice tires I can get. I'll buy 4 steel wheels and just change them back and forth between winter and spring. Thanks!

June

Man! Where do YOU live where you can get on the highway in the snow and
people are driving 20 mph???? Around here you could die in the snow from the
jackasses that don't know you shouldn't go 70 mph on it. I often see them
off the road further down the pike after they've passed me because I'm
driving a safe speed and they aren't. I think I'm going to check into the
Hakka Q's. What is the difference between the Q's and WS tires from Nokian?

many parts of Rt 495 and Rt 3 in Mass during bad snow you'll be lucky
to do 20 mph. Of course during regular traffic you're also lucky to do
20 mph. Once it clears up then yeah everyone is back to 80 mph like
normal.
I used the Hakka Q's and they are a more severe tire for snow and ice.
The WR Passenger is better in the dry and wet but not quite as good in
snow and ice. The Hakka series is for bad long winter use The Hakka
Q's on hot pavement like in late spring feel like you are driving on
Jello.
If you mean the Mass Pike then yeah it's crazy big time even during a
Bad Storm which is why the Pike is always on the News.

 

[Scooby Don't]

My boy drives souped up MY00 Impreza RS. He drives on 17 inch Avid in
summer. I never experienced anything negative on it's ABS or tires. In
winter he is on 16 inch steel rims and Michelin. On Michelin steering
feels mushy and ride is little cushy cushy but no major complaints.
He has a set of adjustable KYB and heavier sway bars, metal links with
Teflon bushings, also Strut tower bars front and rear.
Tony

In the summer I have zero problem with the S03 Pole Positions. But for
winter use I need a harder compound than a conventional winter tire.
We just don't get enough snow to justify the constant use of winter
tires. I drive a lot of highway miles about 25K miles a year and
believe me the winter tires don't last. All seasons suck but they last
a bit longer. My next car will have to be something a bit different
unless I can cut out all the highway mileage.
I used to modify my cars and really get them nice and tight. Just like
your son does but nowadays I end up driving so many boring highway
miles that I just might buy a Diesel VW Golf.
All the nice back roads around here have cops sitting on them because
they know that's where you're going to open it up.
Can't wait to move!

 

[Scooby Don't]

No I'm in the Detroit area, except north of the city out in the sticks where the highway is more like the autobahn as far as speeds. In the winter there is little if any treatment on the roads when I leave for work at 6 am, so I need the best snow and ice tires I can get. I'll buy 4 steel wheels and just change them back and forth between winter and spring. Thanks!

Well Detroit is a different area and has different needs than we do
here. I don't leave until 9am and by then the plows have been out. Of
course I get home a lot later but it's worth it to me to avoid the
traffic.

If I had to be out before 6am I would have to have winter tires and
just hope a set could made it through a single season.

 

[Tony Hwang]

Hi,
My daughter is doing that with Michelin Arctic Alpin. I was gonna buy a
set of Nokia but store did not have it when we wanted them. So ended up
with Michelins on steel rims. She's been going skiing quite regularly
and have not got into trouble on the wintery road.
Tony

 

[S]

Hi Scooby!

The ABS in the WRX is the worst I have ever seen in any
vehicle I've owned.

It works OK in ideal conditions, that being smooth dry pavement. It is
horrible (and terrifying, even at low speed;
"klunk-slide-klunk-slide-klunk") on ice or hard pack, and not of much
use on dirt/gravel either; bumps or washboards have it activating way
too soon.
I _do_ drive aggressively, and long ago learned to modulate my brakes
as needed with my right foot. I disable the ABS in my WRX for
autocross/rally-cross, on snowy/icy days, and for spirited driving
offroad. The Ms. drives very conservatively, but asked me to install
an ABS switch in her Forester too, after trying my WRX on ice (at an
ice rally-cross event) with it turned off ("It _stopped_!!!"). To
disable, either pull the fuse, or install a switch to open the circuit
as needed. The "ABS" light on your dash will illuminate to remind you
that it's off. I know Tony disagrees here; all I can suggest is that
you try it with/without the next time you encounter slickness, and
_then_ decide for yourself.
FWIW, the Michelin Alpin Pilots exhibit very good wear characteristics
on dry roads, even with my fondness for slideways travel. Alas, they
are pricy little beggars. The Arctic Alpins or Hakkis will not fare as
well, but are probably a bit grippier.

ByeBye! S.

Steve Jernigan KG0MB
Laboratory Manager
Microelectronics Research
University of Colorado
(719) 262-3101

 

[Andy Mason]

Hey Scooby,

I feel your pain regarding the ABS. It's downright scary at times. The ABS
in my 1993 Nissan Altima was damn near flawless, and it's pretty lame that a
10 year newer sporty car has a worse system.

Anyhow, you might check into Nokian WR tires, sounds like what your after.
At the very least, check out an "ice tire" vs. a "snow tire". Mine stayed
on the car for a fair bit this summer while I was dithering about what to do
for summer tires, and showed some extra wear, but really weren't all that
bad. Basically anything with at least an S speed rating should be better.

Andy.

 

[Diva]

Yes, the Potenza crap that came on the car are really scary in the snow -- and just dreadful on ice. I went through last winter on them, and I'm not doing it again.

I'll get the Hakka Q's.

June

No I'm in the Detroit area, except north of the city out in the sticks where the highway is more like the autobahn as far as speeds. In the winter there is little if any treatment on the roads when I leave for work at 6 am, so I need the best snow and ice tires I can get. I'll buy 4 steel wheels and just change them back and forth between winter and spring. Thanks!

Well Detroit is a different area and has different needs than we do
here. I don't leave until 9am and by then the plows have been out. Of
course I get home a lot later but it's worth it to me to avoid the
traffic.

If I had to be out before 6am I would have to have winter tires and
just hope a set could made it through a single season.

 

[Diva]

I'll keep those in mind if I can't get the Nokian. Thanks Tony.

June

Hi,
My daughter is doing that with Michelin Arctic Alpin. I was gonna buy a
set of Nokia but store did not have it when we wanted them. So ended up
with Michelins on steel rims. She's been going skiing quite regularly
and have not got into trouble on the wintery road.
Tony

 

[Scooby Don't]

Hi Scooby!



It works OK in ideal conditions, that being smooth dry pavement. It is
horrible (and terrifying, even at low speed;
"klunk-slide-klunk-slide-klunk") on ice or hard pack, and not of much
use on dirt/gravel either; bumps or washboards have it activating way
too soon.

Yeah on nice flat dry clean pavement it works great. Unfortunately I
live in a city with plenty of potholes and bumps and the road rippls
when it freezes. Lots of hills and when you hit a bump going down a
small hill even in the dry it activates and it takes longer to stop.

I _do_ drive aggressively, and long ago learned to modulate my brakes
as needed with my right foot. I disable the ABS in my WRX for
autocross/rally-cross, on snowy/icy days, and for spirited driving
offroad. The Ms. drives very conservatively, but asked me to install
an ABS switch in her Forester too, after trying my WRX on ice (at an
ice rally-cross event) with it turned off ("It _stopped_!!!"). To
disable, either pull the fuse, or install a switch to open the circuit

I will probably have to do this this coming winter. ABS is just too
dangerous in the snow around here and when it slicks up with ice
combined with bumps and potholes, forget it, you could get killed.

as needed. The "ABS" light on your dash will illuminate to remind you
that it's off. I know Tony disagrees here; all I can suggest is that
you try it with/without the next time you encounter slickness, and
_then_ decide for yourself.
FWIW, the Michelin Alpin Pilots exhibit very good wear characteristics
on dry roads, even with my fondness for slideways travel. Alas, they
are pricy little beggars. The Arctic Alpins or Hakkis will not fare as
well, but are probably a bit grippier.

I'll try pulling the fuse when we have snow and find a parking lot to
blast around in and see if it helps and hopefully that will solve the
problem. I have many people tell me this isn't the case, but aftre
riding around the city they change their minds quickly and tell me I
should get it fixed. They can't believe this is normal for ABS.
Snow and Ice change everything about ABS in a hurry.

I'll take a look at the Alpin Pilots on Tire Rack. The tire rack guy
basically said no all season tire would work and to buy winter tires.
But that's not an option for me.

 

[Scooby Don't]

Hey Scooby,

I feel your pain regarding the ABS. It's downright scary at times. The ABS
in my 1993 Nissan Altima was damn near flawless, and it's pretty lame that a
10 year newer sporty car has a worse system.

Thanks Andy, if you actually listen to the ABS system itself it
continues long afte the car has stopped. Subaru really has a poor ABS
system. Otherwise the car is great. I still have 2-3 years before I
buy another car but maybe by then Subaru will have fixed their ABS, if
not then I will have to find another make to buy.

Anyhow, you might check into Nokian WR tires, sounds like what your after.
At the very least, check out an "ice tire" vs. a "snow tire". Mine stayed
on the car for a fair bit this summer while I was dithering about what to do
for summer tires, and showed some extra wear, but really weren't all that
bad. Basically anything with at least an S speed rating should be better.

Yep except for dry conditions in which they are marginal.
I've had Nokian Hakka Q's but they really don't like the dry weather
but they do last. I'm thinking of selling my summer rims and tires I
have the OZ Superleggara Rims with the S03 Pole Postion tires but for
mainly highway driving it's a waste. I might just throw on cheap all
seasons and drive with only those.
Thanks again....

 

[Scooby Don't]

Yes, the Potenza crap that came on the car are really scary in the snow -- and just dreadful on ice. I went through last winter on them, and I'm not doing it again.

I'll get the Hakka Q's.

If you have bad snow and ice and roads they don't really bother to
plow then the Hakka Q's are worth every penny.
The RE-92's are a summer tire and suck in the snow.
I'd rather use the Kuhmo All seasons than the RE-92's.

 

[Forest Tor]

Is there an online source for the Nokians? I can;t find a dealer for
them in Spokane, and apparently TireRack doesn't carry them.

 

[Scooby Don't]

Is there an online source for the Nokians? I can;t find a dealer for
them in Spokane, and apparently TireRack doesn't carry them.

Try http://www.nokian.com/
They have a dealer locater. I bought mine locally (sort of) and I was
very happy with the prices and service.
30 minute ride away is tax free for me.
Tire Rack refuses to carry Nokians. But they are a great tire. You
have to buy them from a local dealer and they aren't cheap but there
are a couple of places that sell them online.

 

[F. Plant]

Thanks Andy, if you actually listen to the ABS system itself it
continues long afte the car has stopped. Subaru really has a poor ABS
system. Otherwise the car is great. I still have 2-3 years before I
buy another car but maybe by then Subaru will have fixed their ABS, if
not then I will have to find another make to buy.

snip

Just as a side note, a friend of mine w. a pontiac sunfire had his ABS
system fail after which they reverted back to operating like normal brakes.
He has not had them 'fixed' since he prefers to have control over the
braking. Don't know how well this will work in the long run but he feels he
has more control. If you find rolling stops a big winter issue it might be
worth investigating disabling the ABS for the season. Means you will not
have the benefits in other situations though which could be a liability
issue though.

F. Plant

 

[Scooby Don't]

Just as a side note, a friend of mine w. a pontiac sunfire had his ABS
system fail after which they reverted back to operating like normal brakes.
He has not had them 'fixed' since he prefers to have control over the
braking. Don't know how well this will work in the long run but he feels he
has more control. If you find rolling stops a big winter issue it might be
worth investigating disabling the ABS for the season. Means you will not
have the benefits in other situations though which could be a liability
issue though.

I've been driving without ABS most of my life, likewise rear wheel
drive vehicles so neither has ever been an issue for me. But when I
mash the brake pedal and hold it it's because I want to stop NOW!
This happens all the time in the winter. Also if you have the know how
to drive in the snow you can usually brake hard skid turn teh wheel
and release the brake and now you are heading say 90 degrees from
before. I haven't been able to try this out in the WRX yet but with
the ABS fuse pulled I will.
Rolling stops are a big problem here esp on side streets when you are
crawling and the brakes still do not stop the car.
Only liability I can see is that I might be able to actually stop for
intersections this winter.
I'll put the fuse back in when i go to the dealer for oil changes and
when the summer gets here.

 

[null_pointer]

I've been driving without ABS most of my life, likewise rear wheel
drive vehicles so neither has ever been an issue for me. But when I
mash the brake pedal and hold it it's because I want to stop NOW!
This happens all the time in the winter. Also if you have the know how
to drive in the snow you can usually brake hard skid turn teh wheel
and release the brake and now you are heading say 90 degrees from
before. I haven't been able to try this out in the WRX yet but with
the ABS fuse pulled I will.
Rolling stops are a big problem here esp on side streets when you are
crawling and the brakes still do not stop the car.
Only liability I can see is that I might be able to actually stop for
intersections this winter.
I'll put the fuse back in when i go to the dealer for oil changes and
when the summer gets here.

Just take the fuse and hook it up to the battery to blow it and put it
back. You can always say "Gee, I didn't know the fuse was blown".
A lot more believeable in court than "Gee, I didn't know the fuse was
missing".

 

[F. Plant]

snip

I've been driving without ABS most of my life, likewise rear wheel
drive vehicles so neither has ever been an issue for me. But when I
mash the brake pedal and hold it it's because I want to stop NOW!

snip

I've only driven ABS vehicles a few times, but have had the experience of
going thru a stop because of it. I found the pulses too hard, and not as
rapid as I would have expected -basically jerky braking so it was no wonder
it would break traction. Just getting a '01 legacy, so it will be
interesting to see what it is like with ABS on canadian snow and ice.

F. Plant

 

[Yousuf Khan]

I've only driven ABS vehicles a few times, but have had the experience of
going thru a stop because of it. I found the pulses too hard, and not as
rapid as I would have expected -basically jerky braking so it was no wonder
it would break traction. Just getting a '01 legacy, so it will be
interesting to see what it is like with ABS on canadian snow and ice.

Well, the ability to continue steering is a definite advantage of the ABS,
but in snow, you get better stopping distances by locking the wheels. In
light snow, the ABS will stop you just as quickly as without ABS, plus you
maintain steering. In heavy snow, you'd probably prefer to keep the ABS off.

Yousuf Khan