will subaru ever get back the trust of the early 90's

[bj]

well, MN...i agree, trouble is the subaru is generally such a great
vehicle...a lot of people have bought it for it's longevity..i hope its
there.

Thanks ed for the how to....it may make people think the local fast
lube may not be the place to change coolant

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

The only Texan I ever voted for Prez was Ron Paul.
Dude, get with those other 200 folks and hire yourself a shyster or shut
up your whining.
"get along little dogie"

carl

 

[Rick Courtright]

Thanks ed for the how to....it may make people think the local fast
lube may not be the place to change coolant

Hmmmm...

Ed's experience changing coolant mirrors mine. You've gotta be careful
AND know what you're doing and why you're doing it in a particular
order. And it takes TIME to do it right. So while the bubbles are coming
to the top, let's think about something with having the quickie lube
place do the job:

People with lots of education and years of experience design cars.
People with years of experience building a certain make put them
together. The dealer service departments USUALLY require a fair amount
of education, both initial and continuing, of the people working on
those cars. New things are learned along the way and TSBs are sent out.
Service procedures are developed and/or modified. This all costs money.
And it's STILL not a perfect system.

So Joe Carowner figures he'll save a buck or two by taking his car to
the local quickie lube where some 17 yr old high school dropout type who
probably can't even spell "TSB" let alone has read one, has 10 minutes
to change everything in the car for $19.95 or whatever, while the
"manager" under pressure from above tries to sell JC on all kinds of
other "services" to keep the store's sales figures up and growing. And
in all this haste JC's car gets screwed up... I think we've all heard
enough quickie lube horror stories to fill their own NG.

Should we blame the manufacturer? I wonder how many of the "damaged"
cars were the result of dealer servicing vs quickie lube vs DIY types?
That might tell a REAL story!

Rick

 

[lkreh]

The ownership and quality surveys don't support your opinion. Subaru
customer satisfaction and quality has only gone up since the 1990s.
You're entitled to an opinion, but it's so focused on a single problem
(head gasket) that you're not seeing the bigger picture of vast overall
improvements to date.

My two duckets,
LK

 

[Mickey]

when they had the great 2.2 engine?...will they ever own up to the
failure of the 96-99 2.5l DOHC? let alone the later 2.5 SOHC with
their head gasket failures? Will they ever own up to the design flaw in
the engine which is not a gasket problem but a basic design problem
allowing hotspots from air bubbles in the coolant..

it would have been a cheap fix to drill and tap the coolant crossover
pipe to allow the air to escape....but subaru denial is the cheaper
fix...

if you do change your coolant...take care to remove the air, burp the
system and save your heads...and do a google search for "subaru head
gasket failures"

my 2 cents

Anyone that has one of these models and has experienced a HG problem
is going to be upset especially if it's on their dime. BTDT!

Will have to say the the Subaru design leads to these kinds of
problems. Flat engine with coolant exit between front and back cyl
(if engine not level there is bigger chance of air entrapment when
replacing the coolant) and very low mounted radiator compared to
engine position. All these things help contribute to trapped air.
For many if not most the Subaru is their only experience with this
design and thus not making them aware of potential for entrapped air
when changing coolant.

Subaru could do themselves and their customers a service if they would
stress this to a greater extent than they do. Not every owner takes
their car back to the dealer for this kind of simple service.

In some areas where Subaru's are not popular even so called
professionals may not have the needed knowledge to purge the cooling
system correctly. Ran into this myself some months back while on a
trip and had cooling problems. Radiator plugged from coolant
conditioner. Radiator shop close to where I was at the time had never
worked on a Subaru before and had no knowledge. I pulled the radiator
myself, let them do their thing and I reinstalled, filled the cooling
system and purged according to the manual. If left to the shop,
overheating was just a few miles away.

Mickey

 

[bj]

mickey, finally someone making sense...a swirl tank would have been an
easy fix by subaru.....agree the owners manual doesn't go into any
detail on changing coolant....a $ 2000 oversight for some

rick, show me any other site about any other make and head gasket
failure...the problems you see on that site are a fraction of those
experienced.
Do you really believe the any but a small fraction of the owners with
HGFailure found that site and took the time to post? Hardly.

Ikreh,...better check the years 96-2000...consumer reports and others
question the engine

Carl the cowboy....texas..a whole lot of nuthin'

 

[Rick Courtright]

rick, show me any other site about any other make and head gasket
failure...the problems you see on that site are a fraction of those

BJ,

As I alluded to in my first reply to you, it's clear your mind's made up
and trying to confuse you with facts is a waste of time, so you'll
pardon me if I don't parry with you further in the search for continued
entertainment.

Rick

 

[MN]

BJ,

As I alluded to in my first reply to you, it's clear your mind's made up
and trying to confuse you with facts is a waste of time, so you'll
pardon me if I don't parry with you further in the search for continued
entertainment.

Rick

Before quickly brushing aside the guy's valid but maybe slightly
exaggerated concerns what about answering his question whether
you work for Subaru?

MN

 

[Patrick]

In 1986 i was the owner of a Renault 5 ( LE CAR ) You also had to bleed the
system after flushing the cooling system or replacing the radiator. I
always buy a haynes manual when buying a new car and
evaluate the skills tools and potential problem before starting a job.

Save a lot of $$$$

My 2 cents


Pat

 

[Rick Courtright]

what about answering his question whether you work for Subaru?

Sorry, no such question's shown up on my newsreader, but if it had, NO,
I don't work for Subaru (or any other car company.)

Rick

 

[hippo]

mickey, finally someone making sense...a swirl tank would have been an

easy fix by subaru.....agree the owners manual doesn't go into any

detail on changing coolant....a $ 2000 oversight for some

rick, show me any other site about any other make and head gasket
failure...the problems you see on that site are a fraction of those
experienced.
Do you really believe the any but a small fraction of the owners with
HGFailure found that site and took the time to post? Hardly.

Ikreh,...better check the years 96-2000...consumer reports and others
question the engine

Carl the cowboy....texas..a whole lot of nuthin'

Well, I just put googled 'n' head gasket failure and changed 'n' half a
dozen times. Here's a sample out of what were consistently long forum,
complaint and advocacy returns.

http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=101&did=565

http://www.preloved.co.uk/fuseactio..._id-10411/startrow-1/maxrows-20/85f8a53d.html

http://groups.msn.com/ToyotaOwnersUniteforResolution/headgaskets.msnw

So yes, Subis have had a problem with hgs, but so have most other
manufacturers over the last couple of decades - whether running 4, 6 or 8
cyls; sohc, dohc, or pushrods; straight, V, or flat configuration and
engines ranging from sub 1L to over 5L. I'm happy with this one and my
last one. The OB 2.5 isn't perfect, uses more petrol than its mainstream
competition and has higher than average routine service bills - although
not much at all outside those service intervals - but it inspires
confidence and is a delight to drive well over 99% of the time here in
Aus, over a huge range of road surfaces and conditions; so I'll put up
with a few negatives. Cheers

 

[CompUser]

@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, (e-mail address removed)
says...

mickey, finally someone making sense...a swirl tank would have been an
easy fix by subaru.....agree the owners manual doesn't go into any
detail on changing coolant....a $ 2000 oversight for some

From the vague descriptions, sounds like this is
exactly what I have on my 2.0L...pressurized
tank,higher than rest of the system...thanks!

 

[lkreh]

<<Ikreh,...better check the years 96-2000...consumer reports and
others
question the engine >>

I have. Me thinks you've missed the point. -LK

 

[Danny Russell]

when they had the great 2.2 engine?...will they ever own up to the
failure of the 96-99 2.5l DOHC? let alone the later 2.5 SOHC with
their head gasket failures? Will they ever own up to the design flaw in
the engine which is not a gasket problem but a basic design problem
allowing hotspots from air bubbles in the coolant..

it would have been a cheap fix to drill and tap the coolant crossover
pipe to allow the air to escape....but subaru denial is the cheaper
fix...

if you do change your coolant...take care to remove the air, burp the
system and save your heads...and do a google search for "subaru head
gasket failures"

SOA has finally issued a TSB for the rattling heat shields ...coat hanger. They aren't actually
admitting that the shields rattle, but the mechanics are instructed to install the coat hanger on
cars that have come in for the Bar's Leak head gasket fix.

Rumor has it that SOA has recently purchased some 19,000 rolls of duct tape in bulk. Not sure what
they have planned for that, but I'm certain that whatever it is, it'll be a refreshing advancement
in automotive service technology. It's clear that GM's involvement has been a good thing (initially
there were concerns). -Danny

 

[CompUser]

SOA has finally issued a TSB for the rattling heat shields ...coat hanger. They aren't actually
admitting that the shields rattle, but the mechanics are instructed to install the coat hanger on
cars that have come in for the Bar's Leak head gasket fix.

Rumor has it that SOA has recently purchased some 19,000 rolls of duct tape in bulk. Not sure what
they have planned for that, but I'm certain that whatever it is, it'll be a refreshing advancement
in automotive service technology. It's clear that GM's involvement has been a good thing (initially
there were concerns).

Should we assume the cynicsm meter pegged on
that one?

....gee, when will we see Subaru "Employee
Discount" pricing?

 

[Danny Russell]

Should we assume the cynicsm meter pegged on
that one?

Mostly. Uhh oh, this just in... "Exciting changes are due!" "SOA to become SOL in '06."

...gee, when will we see Subaru "Employee
Discount" pricing?

I bet a dime to a donut it's the minute that Subaru figures out that $26k SAAB 9/2 Aero's are
hitting street for less money than $24k WRX's. -Danny

 

[Clifford Heath]

...a swirl tank would have been an easy fix by subaru

The aircraft site said the problem was fixed by drilling and tapping
a small tube into the coolant tube above the engine, and connecting
that to the coolant reservoir.

Would this fix the problem, or is a swirl pot needed?
Is there a reservoir, or just an overflow bottle, in these cars?
Alternatively, could the tube be simply fitted with a tap to allow
bleeding?

I'm just trying to work out what to as the repair shop to do to our
engine while it's out of the car... in addition to valve guides, head
machining, gasket, clutch... :-(.

Clifford Heath.

 

[bj]

cliff, i think a swirl take would maintain your radiator pressure..what
ever your rad cap is set at......connecting it to your reservoir
wouldn't maintain pressure

my guess is a bleed screw may not do it since it may take a while for
the air to get out...the swirl pot (the highest point of the system) is
pressure tight but has enough size to it to catch the air

you may be able to email the guy via his web page

 

[Clifford Heath]

cliff, i think a swirl take would maintain your radiator pressure..what
ever your rad cap is set at......connecting it to your reservoir
wouldn't maintain pressure
Agree.

my guess is a bleed screw may not do it since it may take a while for
the air to get out...the swirl pot (the highest point of the system) is
pressure tight but has enough size to it to catch the air

To catch how much air? Do they have a valve to let it out as well?

A colleague at work had a Commodore (Australian GM V6) with exactly
the same design fault - except it had a bleeder. He used a tall
funnel taped into the radiator to fill it, with the bleeder open,
running until the stat opens up and topping until the bleeder
stopped burping air.

I think that's the minimum I will do with our Suby.

 

[bj]

the aircraft site said a couple of cups....the bleed screw should be on
the swirl pot.....i see the aircraft guy has an email address....might
drop him a line..