Why don't people buy snow tires?

[Tony Hwang]

Most aggressively tractiony in wet and icy conditions, and that the
rubber supposedly wears in such a way that they have more traction when
worn, so have a longer useful tread life. This is a concern because our
gravel road routinely eats up tires inside 25,000 miles.

He flat-out promised me it would feel like a whole new car. I was
skeptical by the time I was on the way home, and feeling a little
sheepish for the next couple of weeks about falling for it -- but then
we got lots of snow, and hey, it _does_ feel like a whole new car! It
just _goes_.

Hi,
How about lateral traction?(sliding side way) Another important aspect
of a tire.
Tony

 

[No Way]

Or get a car with Traction Control

Traction control?
My 2004 Impreza wagon has 4 new snow tires.
I can tromp on the throttle to the floor in the first 3 gears in snow up to
25cm deep and it just digs in and goes until I am over 140 k's where i
decide to shift to 5th gear and slow down.
That is traction control.

 

[Dominic Richens]

Traction control?
My 2004 Impreza wagon has 4 new snow tires.
I can tromp on the throttle to the floor in the first 3 gears in snow
up to 25cm deep and it just digs in and goes until I am over 140 k's
where i decide to shift to 5th gear and slow down.
That is traction control.

No, I think he means VDC e.g. if you start to understeer it applies the
brake on the inside rear wheel to correct.

 

[TW-Ohio]

Why don't people buy snow tires?

From: "Dominic Richens" (e-mail address removed)

No, I think he means VDC e.g. if you start to understeer it applies the
brake on the inside rear wheel to correct.

I agree as I drive in the same spirited manner with 4 snows on my '02 GT; so
TC may not be terribly necessary on awd subies. But occasionally I'd like to
have traction control for spirited uphill starts, yet not necessarily VDC, as
I'd like to be able to disable either (or both) computer operated systems so as
to still be able to get sideways, do handbrake turns, or to spin all four tires
in the snow when desired (a rarity, yet fun). The GT has but 165hp, so traction
control would be more beneficial in a car with a stronger motor as in an STi or
B4 (when it gets here), and especially fwd and rwd cars which is where this
started...
Terry - '02 Regatta-Red GT wagon 5spd - 25,000 miles
'03 Silver Legacy SE auto-sedan - 2450 miles
Yakima / TandeMover / Rockymount rack
To reply, get rid of the "nonsense"

 

[Greg Reed]

Hi,
How about lateral traction?(sliding side way) Another important aspect
of a tire.
Tony

Oh MAN am I glad you wrote that. The Dunlop SP Sport 5000 AS radials I just
bought for my FWD Oldsmobile seem to have *much* better lateral (sideways)
grip than they do when accelerating or decelerating. I was starting to
think I was losing my mind.

- Greg Reed

--
1976 Cadillac Fleetwood 75 9-Pass sedan
(FS: http://www.dataspire.com/caddy)
1989 Audi 200 Turbo Quattro 5-Speed sedan
2000 Oldsmobile Intrigue
2001 Chevy Astro AWD (wife's)
2005 Subaru Legacy GT Wagon (when available in U.S.)

 

[Greg Reed]

Cam Penner wrote:

Corners make a difference too. Under acceleration, FWD
cars have less traction when cornering than RWD. They are
splitting their available traction between acceleration and
steering. This promotes understeer when traction is lost.
RWD cars don't have that limitation on the front, but split
traction the same way at the rear. This is slightly less
likely to cause loss of traction, but it does. Rear wheels
have to split traction between acceleration and cornering.
The result of this traction loss is oversteer. In general,
understeer is easier to recover from than oversteer.

< snip >

Here is where we see the reason for your belief that FWD is superior to RWD:
You assume that a loss of traction is something from which we must
"recover." When driving in the snow, my car is sliding in some manner or
another about 50% or so of the time it's cornering. All of this sliding is
intentionally caused and controlled by *me*, the *driver* of the car.
Therefore, neither oversteer nor understeer is something from which I have
to "recover" because in either case the condition was something that I
caused intentionally. A RWD (or better still, AWD) car gives me more
options as to how I can make the car slide through a curve than does a FWD
car.

The expected response to the preceding paragraph (that "most drivers" are
incapable of controlling their cars in this manner) is a testament to just
how poorly trained "most drivers" are in the United States. As far as I'm
concerned, anybody who can't do a decent 4-wheel drift through a snowy curve
has no business operating a motor vehicle between the months of September
and May.

And anybody who doesn't think that AWD should count as a "safety feature" in
the snow has never tried to make a left turn onto a busy road in
less-than-perfect road conditions in a FWD vehicle. There aren't a lot of
things that I dread more than trying to pull into traffic in the snow with
my FWD Oldsmobile.

- Greg Reed

--
1976 Cadillac Fleetwood 75 9-Pass sedan
(FS: http://www.dataspire.com/caddy)
1989 Audi 200 Turbo Quattro 5-Speed sedan
2000 Oldsmobile Intrigue
2001 Chevy Astro AWD (wife's)
2005 Subaru Legacy GT Wagon (when available in U.S.)

 

[Al]

Oh MAN am I glad you wrote that. The Dunlop SP Sport 5000 AS radials I just
bought for my FWD Oldsmobile seem to have *much* better lateral (sideways)
grip than they do when accelerating or decelerating. I was starting to
think I was losing my mind.

- Greg Reed

In 1978 there was a blizzard that paralyzed the Boston area for about a
week. I drove my '71 XKE 18 miles through that mess to get home safely.
I can't tell you how many stuck cars I passed. In those days it was all
rear wheel drive with the rare 4 wheel drive Scout around. the Jag had a
limited slip rear differential and no snow tires. I suppose some of my
success was due to luck, but a lot was due to the driving skills I had
developed driving that car.

Al

 

[TransFixed]

No Way wrote:
....

See you in the ditch.....
Front wheel drive understeers terrible.
a bit of over steer in a rear wheel will get you around ramps and curves
Understeer sends you to the ditch every time.
Every snow storm in Ontario you see ditches full of front drive cars.
That is the truth meter. ....
and the cartridge box.

passive Canadian here
no guns thanks.
"in defence of the country to bear arms" , not shoot your neighbour.

So what's better, left rear of right front? And here I thought that, by
association, left front and right rear were more common.

- D ;-)

 

[David Buchner]

How about lateral traction?(sliding side way) Another important aspect
of a tire.

It feels like I have a lot more all-round traction than with the
orginals -- climbing steep driveway, steering in loose snow, everything.
Now, this could largely just be the wonderful new-ness of the tires
compared to the old ones, combined with wishful thinking to justify the
purchase of an expensive set of tires... but I am quite happy with them
in the snow.

 

[vic]

Who drives the car?????? I have no snow tires, no traction control.....i
have a sterring wheel a brake pedal and I live in Montreal
gggggggssssssssssssssssss

 

[FNO]

Who drives the car?????? I have no snow tires, no traction control.....i
have a sterring wheel a brake pedal and I live in Montreal
gggggggssssssssssssssssss

<snip>

In Montreal that doesn't surprise me. Most people in Montreal don't drive
cars; they aim them and fire them.

 

[Dominic Richens]

<snip>

In Montreal that doesn't surprise me. Most people in Montreal don't
drive cars; they aim them and fire them.

Yeah, works great.

I grew up in Montrèal. One fine -20C winter's day my mother decided now was
as good as any time to teach me to drive in her blue manual RWD Mazda GLC.
She figured best just get it over with - if I survived that, I'd survive
anything.