What a P.O.S!

[osamahornifukus]

I just noticed that LSD is gone on WRX due to VDC!
according to cars101.com that is.

What a piece of shit (tm).

 

[Tony Hwang]

I just noticed that LSD is gone on WRX due to VDC!
according to cars101.com that is.

What a piece of shit (tm).

Hi,
LSD is not permanent thing on any vehicle.

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

I just noticed that LSD is gone on WRX due to VDC!
according to cars101.com that is.

What a piece of shit (tm).

I'm pretty sure your other posts have done a good job of keeping us all
up to date on your increasing displeasure at FHI in general and the new
Imprezas specifically. How many more disappointing details on Subaru
cars will be required for you to just give up completely and leave?

Carl

 

[John A.]

I just noticed that LSD is gone on WRX due to VDC!
according to cars101.com that is.

What a piece of shit (tm).

Actually VDC is a much better system than any LSD.
John

 

[osamahornifukus]

Hi,
LSD is not permanent thing on any vehicle.

What does that supposed to mean?

 

[osamahornifukus]

Actually VDC is a much better system than any LSD.

For FHI? Most definitely. It takes way more money to machine the
housing
and the LSD internals than to produce a $3 power robbing chip in
taiwan.
Also, by the same token, celery is much better than steak and
pigs could fly given sufficient propulsion (something that previous
generation of wrx provided an abundance of).

But it's good to see that FHI figured a way to deal with the weakening
dollar.
If you can't get away with upping the price you can surely remove
some parts most people won't notice anyway. Especially
if they've had too much of the above mentioned LSD.

I admit I admire the good sportsmanship of the Fuji Heavy Industries.
To lend a hand to Mitsubishi Motors in the difficult times when the
only model
in the lineup is not covered with red ink is EVO takes some strong
wisdom. I should wholeheartedly thank FHI for being a good corporate
citizen
and give Mitsubishi some breathing times.
Domo aregato gazaimas FHI. My hat is off to you.
Automotive industry and rally car enthusiasts appreciate your
generosity,
even if at the expense of your shareholders, who I'm sure see
it the way you do.

 

[nobody >]

(e-mail address removed) wrote:

a bunch of stuff.

He's entitled to his opinions but he's ended up as just another troll here.

Thunderbird helps with that;
right-click on (e-mail address removed) in the "from" line, "Create
Filter from Message". It must have guessed that I don't want to listen
to his crap, as the default is "delete".

The only other entry in my AAS killfile is the "MI5Guy".

 

[Tony Hwang]

What does that supposed to mean?

Hi,
Look into how LSD works, then you'll understand.

 

[osamahornifukus]

Hi,
Look into how LSD works, then you'll understand.

I think I do: it prevents wheel spin in situations when 2
front wheels lost traction and 1 of the rear wheels completely
or fully lost traction. With LSD the other rear wheel will still
get partially powered and on the new Subarus you'd have a
wheelspin.
Am I missing something?
Is there some magical way that VDC would apply brakes
in such a way that the power will be delivered to the
wheels that have remaining grip?

 

[drieszguesswhattozap]

I think I do: it prevents wheel spin in situations when 2
front wheels lost traction and 1 of the rear wheels completely
or fully lost traction. With LSD the other rear wheel will still
get partially powered and on the new Subarus you'd have a
wheelspin.

The rear LSD distributes torque between the two rear wheels
independently of what's going on with the front wheels.

Am I missing something?
Is there some magical way that VDC would apply brakes
in such a way that the power will be delivered to the
wheels that have remaining grip?

This is, in fact, the point of VDC and has been around in various
forms for more than a decade. VDC monitors the ABS sensors and can
apply the brake of a spinning wheel to allow torque to reach the other
wheel. VDC does other things, as well, but this is how it can
electronically "lock" a differential.

This is certainly a more complicated traction solution than a purely-
mechanical LSD and you can argue that it is comparatively less reliable.
But it has a considerable weight advantage. Eventually, it should also
cost less, once it becomes more commonly available.

Regards,
Dave Riesz

 

[osamahornifukus]

The rear LSD distributes torque between the two rear wheels
independently of what's going on with the front wheels.


This is, in fact, the point of VDC and has been around in various
forms for more than a decade. VDC monitors the ABS sensors and can
apply the brake of a spinning wheel to allow torque to reach the other
wheel. VDC does other things, as well, but this is how it can
electronically "lock" a differential.

This is certainly a more complicated traction solution than a purely-
mechanical LSD and you can argue that it is comparatively less reliable.

You mean _considerably_ less reliable?
I don't mean as in "a nuclear blast takes out all the electronics" but
as
in the oldie Outback vs Vulva cros country video with the vulva
spinning the rear wheels ever so slightly on a modest muddy uphill
and after being graced with a trailer?
I'm sure that Vulva in the video had VDC among other things: did not
help a squat
to keep that pig going though.

But it has a considerable weight advantage. Eventually, it should also
cost less,

Does it work?

 

[drieszguesswhattozap]

You mean _considerably_ less reliable?

No, I do not mean "considerably."

I don't mean as in "a nuclear blast takes out all the electronics" but
as
in the oldie Outback vs Vulva cros country video with the vulva
spinning the rear wheels ever so slightly on a modest muddy uphill
and after being graced with a trailer?
I'm sure that Vulva in the video had VDC among other things: did not
help a squat
to keep that pig going though.

I've never heard of a "Vulva cross country."

Does it work?

Yes, it works. Think of it in conceptual terms. An open differential
loses traction when one wheel breaks free and all of the power is
directed to it. It's simply a by-product of the way a traditional
differential functions. If you can return resistance to that wheel,
whether by regaining traction or applying its brake, then power *will*
return to the other wheel. VDC is scheme for accomplishing this.
Furthermore, it can be applied to *all* of the wheels, not just the
rear.

Going back to reliability, more complex systems are generally more prone
to failure than less complex ones. But it's rarely that simple. If
your LSD breaks, you can't drive the car. It's busted. If VDC breaks,
it merely turns itself off and you can keep driving.

 

[osamahornifukus]

Going back to reliability, more complex systems are generally more prone
to failure than less complex ones. But it's rarely that simple. If
your LSD breaks, you can't drive the car. It's busted. If VDC breaks,
it merely turns itself off and you can keep driving.

I have a problem with subaru converting the concept "at worst
we drive a front wheel and a bit of each rear" to
"we drive any one wheel that has traction
unless you shelled out $$$ for an sti".

With the latter having a mechanical diff which is probably a bit more
likely to break. Well, what do I know.

as for the vulva cross country here's the (old) vid:

new wrx is probably not as bad but most likely got one step closer

 

[JD]

I have a problem with subaru converting the concept "at worst
we drive a front wheel and a bit of each rear" to
"we drive any one wheel that has traction
unless you shelled out $$$ for an sti".

With the latter having a mechanical diff which is probably a bit more
likely to break. Well, what do I know.

as for the vulva cross country here's the (old) vid:

new wrx is probably not as bad but most likely got one step closer

Mercedes uses the same concept; three open diffs and use the ABS to
redistribute torque. Seems to work very well for them and a Mercedes is not
a low-end car

 

[John A.]

Actually VDC is a much better system than any LSD.
John

You show great ignorance of the VDC system if you think it is only a $3
chip. It is actually a very sophisticated 'total' vehicle application. VDC
controls the engine, transmission, differentials, and brake system and has
components in each of these systems. It also includes accelerometers that
allow the VDC system to determine what forces are acting on the vehicle, and
in which direction. Along with the steering wheel sensor, the VDC system is
able to determine if the vehicle is going in the direction the driver
intends (or doesn't intend) for it to go. A simple visit to the Subaru
website, or review of any Subaru service manual or technical manual will
reveal to you how much more than a '$3 chip" the system really is.
John

 

[Brian]

You show great ignorance of the VDC system if you think it is only a $3
chip. It is actually a very sophisticated 'total' vehicle application. VDC
controls the engine, transmission, differentials, and brake system and has
components in each of these systems. It also includes accelerometers that
allow the VDC system to determine what forces are acting on the vehicle,
and in which direction. Along with the steering wheel sensor, the VDC
system is able to determine if the vehicle is going in the direction the
driver intends (or doesn't intend) for it to go. A simple visit to the
Subaru website, or review of any Subaru service manual or technical manual
will reveal to you how much more than a '$3 chip" the system really is.
John

What's to stop somebody installing a LSD on their car after they purchase it
and if it's really so great a necessity why not just do this? Any chances a
LSD could throw off the proper functioning of VDC?

~Brian

 

[osamahornifukus]

What's to stop somebody installing a LSD on their car after they purchase it

There are no aftermarket rear axle LSD that I see on cobbtuning.
Do you think lsd from a totalled 07 wrx would fit?

and if it's really so great a necessity why not just do this? Any chances a
LSD could throw off the proper functioning of VDC?

that could very well be one of the reasons why subaru converted a
"most wheels
drive" car into an "any wheel drive".

I guess we'll see in a few years if dollar recovers at all.
If they put LSD back in to be competitive with the upcoming WRX slayer
from Fuso than they figured how to make the two compatible. If not
then
they'll be just another "me too" any wheel drive car maker.

 

[osamahornifukus]

and if it's really so great a necessity why not just do this? Any chances a
LSD could throw off the proper functioning of VDC?

I gave it some thought over the day: I don't think they can make LSD
to work with VDC. The latter P.O.S. can break any wheel at any time.
Suppose you have to do sustained brake application of a rear wheel
while some power is routed to the rear axle thru the center diff:
the other wheel would receive power and due to the nature of LSD
the fluid would thinken to get the clutch engaged to drive the other
wheel
(which is locked by VDC).
Potentially, if the wheel stays locked for long, the grease in the
rear diff
could overheat (and something would fail, I suspect rather
spectacularly
and expensively as it typically does on Subarus).

I see at least 3 ways this could develop:
1. Subaru busily R&Ding a solution involving an electric clutch pack
for
the rear diff or something else cheaper than the STI rear diff.
2. Subaru does not do shit about the rear diff and the cars
blessed with VDC (minus the STI) get "any wheel drive" to stay.
3. Installs STI rear diff on the pedestrian WRX
(one less incentive to buy STI; more money out of FHI pocket: ain't
gonna happen)

They are not hurting in 08 impreza selling department according to
dec 2007 sales report on subdriven so I would not be surprised if they
just
keep sitting on their asses until the sucker supply dwindles down
as savvy buyers flock to Mitsubishi (me thinks this is not likely to
happen
any time soon)

 

[osamahornifukus]

I'm pretty sure your other posts have done a good job of keeping us all
up to date on your increasing displeasure at FHI in general and the new
Imprezas specifically. How many more disappointing details on Subaru
cars will be required for you to just give up completely and leave?

I have a sudden jolt of creativity.
Don't you know I don't give shit about political correctness?
I expect some respect from FHI for the intelligence of their
clientele (and prospective clientele) and since I'm not getting
any I feel I'm entitled to opine (loudly).

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

I have a sudden jolt of creativity.
Don't you know I don't give shit about political correctness?
I expect some respect from FHI for the intelligence of their
clientele (and prospective clientele) and since I'm not getting
any I feel I'm entitled to 'WHINE' (loudly).

fixed


Carl