Switching from Honda to Subaru

[Chicobiker]

The days of my '94 Accord may be numbered and I've started looking for
its eventual replacement. This car served me well for almost 300K and
would look for another Honda except for one thing: this time I want a
4WD/AWD sedan. Honda does not have one in sedan, so I am looking into a
Subaru Legacy. Any former Accord owners out there who could compare the
two brands and models for long term reliability, quality and maintenance
cost? I am also looking for lesser road noise than I am used to in my
Accord. Is Legacy a quiet car?

Thanks for any feedback,
JR

I had a 1995 Accord with almost 300k kms before I bought a 2003
Outback Sport. The Outback sport now has 200k kms and I just bought a
2010 Outback.

To compare the 1995 Accord with the 2003 Outback sport:

- Outback Sport was smaller. More along the lines of a civic. Legacy
would be about the same size as your accord.
- Accord was significantly better on gas. New Legacy with CVT is
waaaay better than the older Subarus, but still not as good as Accord.
- I'll give an edge to the Accord for reliability and maintenance, but
the Subaru hasn't really been too bad.
- Rust: My accord got rust spots behind the rear wheels near the end
of its life. So does my OBS. Tie. Those cars both spent most of
their lives in eastern Canada.
- Noise: Subaru engine is noisier. But I like the noise. Sounds
powerful!
- winter driving: not even close. Subaru wins by a longshot.
- summer driving: Close. That Accord hugged corners very well. But
if you're not numb, AWD still makes a better drive even on dry
pavement. That feeling of being pushed from the rear wheels just
feels good. And the AWD shines when on dirt or grass. Edge to
Subaru.
- "feel" - Slight edge to Subaru. Both cars feel solid, but Subaru
feels like a small tank that can drive over anything.
- overall quality: Subaru is known to have slightly more "economical"
interior, but overall quality of both cars is comparable.

Final verdict: I bought another Subaru, and didn't even go look at
the Hondas!

Remember how much you paid for this advice.

 

[Cameo]

The 2011 Legacy will be a 2-nd year production.
They've issued several recalls on the car already,
so hopefully the bugs were caught and fixed.

In its 2nd year? Perfect!

You may also want to check out the Suzuki Kizashi,
if there are Suzuki dealerships around you. Its a new
AWD sedan from Suzuki that is getting very good reviews.

Too much of a niche car with few dealerships. That is a disqualifier for
me.

"Polak, Wegier, dwa bratanki" says a Polish saying ))))

Indeed, but it doesn't rhyme without the second part:
"I do szabli, i do szklanki."

JR

 

[Cameo]

Final verdict: I bought another Subaru, and didn't even go look at
the Hondas!

Thanks for that very convincing comparison. Just curious: ignoring the
size and fuel consumption difference between Legacy and Impreza, is
there any significant argument to recommend one over the other?

I also wonder what engine oil brand and type is recommended by Subaru.
In case of Honda, it is Castrol, for instance and 5W-30 for my Accord.

Remember how much you paid for this advice.

You bet! ;-)

 

[Frank]

The guys at the local tire shop say to rotate the tires religiously
at the recommended time. Tire rotation should be done every 7500 miles
on my '99. I waited twice
that long if memory serves. It didn't take long to screw up the tires
after I did rotate them.
The lesson I took from this is rotate them on time or not at all.
There aren't many Subies around here so I'm not sure how familiar the
local tire guys are with them.
We use 4WD pickups at work but that's a little different than cars
generally running on pave roads. The pickups seem to need tire fairly
often too.

I got the same advice and was told that Subaru's are harder on tires
than other cars. On my first Forester (lost to accident), I only got
22k miles on tires due to ignoring them. On second, I got 28k. Still a
little short, but better.

Shops advice is rotate every 6k and check alignment every 2 years.

We also need to mention that if one tire goes, they all go, unless you
shave new tire to match wear on old.

 

[John]

The days of my '94 Accord may be numbered and I've started looking for
its eventual replacement. This car served me well for almost 300K and
would look for another Honda except for one thing: this time I want a
4WD/AWD sedan. Honda does not have one in sedan, so I am looking into
a Subaru Legacy. Any former Accord owners out there who could compare
the two brands and models for long term reliability, quality and
maintenance cost? I am also looking for lesser road noise than I am
used to in my Accord. Is Legacy a quiet car?

Thanks for any feedback,
JR

Went from a '90 Accord to a 95 Legacy wagon. Both were good and the
only major item either needed were front axles from worn CV joints which
is typical after high mileage. The accord I sold with 160K and then
needed a battery and alternator in the months after. The legacy I
traded with 175K for an '00 Outback. I think the accord handled better
and was a bit quicker due to the better shift points in the auto trans,
plus had a sport selection for even higher rpm shifts. But like you, I
wanted AWD and Honda didn't have an option at the time.

 

[John]

Went from a '90 Accord to a 95 Legacy wagon. Both were good and the
only major item either needed were front axles from worn CV joints
which is typical after high mileage. The accord I sold with 160K and
then needed a battery and alternator in the months after. The legacy
I traded with 175K for an '00 Outback. I think the accord handled
better and was a bit quicker due to the better shift points in the
auto trans, plus had a sport selection for even higher rpm shifts.
But like you, I wanted AWD and Honda didn't have an option at the time.

In addition, the accord was much roomier in the interior, BUT that is
because it is a wider vehicle (ergo better handling. I've been in tight
traffic spots with the subie where the accord wouldn't have fit by. Not
sure on the dimensions now.

 

[Tom]

I went from a 2003 Honda Accord V6 w/leather to a 2010 Subaru Legacy Limited
H6 w/leather. The Legacy is quieter, rides smoother, is much roomier and
has more power. The AWD provides much better, more secure handling in rainy
or snowy conditions. Even with AWD, I'm only getting about 1-2 mpg less than
the Accord.
I was initially concerned about possible lack of thigh support, but the
seats have proven to be extremely comfortable for both every day driving and
long trips.

 

[Cameo]

I went from a 2003 Honda Accord V6 w/leather to a 2010 Subaru Legacy
Limited H6 w/leather. The Legacy is quieter, rides smoother, is much
roomier and has more power. The AWD provides much better, more secure
handling in rainy or snowy conditions. Even with AWD, I'm only getting
about 1-2 mpg less than the Accord.
I was initially concerned about possible lack of thigh support, but
the seats have proven to be extremely comfortable for both every day
driving and long trips.

I've been trying to find more info about the Legacy's transmission. I am
only interested in the A/T. In the specs I see this variable speed A/T
listed. How does that compare to Honda's A/T? Both reliability wise and
smoothness wise ...

 

[Tom]

The Subaru H6 is only available with a 5 speed auto. It's very smooth,
possibly a little more so than the 5 speed auto in my 2003 Accord.
The H4 Subaru is available with a 6 speed manual, which has an acceptable
but not great reputation, or a CVT, with paddle shifters that simulate 6
speeds. The CVT provides outstanding mileage, better than the manual.
The turbo LGT is only available with the 6 speed manual.

 

[David R. Birch]

The Crosstour. With AWD you're looking at about $33,700.

For an ACCORD?!?!?!?!

(They're kind ugly, in a cool way...or is that cool in an ugly way...?)

As a former Accord owner ('79, '80, '80, '88), that has got to be Aztek
ugly, no cool about it.

I gave up on the Accord when they dropped the 3 door hatchback and
abandoned the core Accord owners.

No room for 2 deer and gear.

David

 

[John Varela]

The Legacy is quieter, rides smoother, is much roomier and
has more power.

I was driving a '95 Volvo 850 turbo, a 5-cylinder car, in the autumn
of 1998 when we bought my wife's 1999 Forester (which she still has,
with 50-something thousand miles on it and no head gasket problems
yet). I recall being struck at the time by the fact that the
Forester engine was quieter and had less vibration than the Volvo,
which was in every other way a larger and more luxurious car.

 

[Frank]

As a former Accord owner ('79, '80, '80, '88), that has got to be Aztek
ugly, no cool about it.

I gave up on the Accord when they dropped the 3 door hatchback and
abandoned the core Accord owners.

No room for 2 deer and gear.

David

I've had 2 deer and gear in my Forester. Plus I was only out about
twenty grand

 

[Cameo]

I was driving a '95 Volvo 850 turbo, a 5-cylinder car, in the autumn
of 1998 when we bought my wife's 1999 Forester (which she still has,
with 50-something thousand miles on it and no head gasket problems
yet). I recall being struck at the time by the fact that the
Forester engine was quieter and had less vibration than the Volvo,
which was in every other way a larger and more luxurious car.

Hm, interesting ...
By the way, are Subaru engines interference types like Honda's? Also,
are they using timing belts or chains in recent models?

 

[Big Jim]

I disagree. Honda auto transmissions have a high failure rate. I
would put subaru abouve honda nissan, mazda, mitsubishi and equal or
better than toyota . The AWD doesnt add much to maintenance but is a
lifesaver in inclement weather.

 

[John Varela]

Hm, interesting ...

If I'm not mistaken, the horizontally opposed engine is naturally
balanced so produces little vibration.

By the way, are Subaru engines interference types like Honda's? Also,
are they using timing belts or chains in recent models?

The 99 Forester has a timing belt and I believe it's an interference
engine. Not that that has anything to do with your question about
recent models!

 

[Yousuf Khan]

I did a screeching halt in front of a Honda dealer today. HAD to at least
sit in this!

http://www.cargurus.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/honda-cr-z-21.jpg

Yeah, sat in one a few weeks back when I was looking to replace my
Pontiac GP, which I ended up buying an '09 Pontiac G5. But I was looking
at Honda Fits, and Civics at the time, and this thing caught my eye too.

Yousuf Khan

 

[weelliott]

Have in mind that the addition of AWD alone
is going to reduce a cars reliability, increase
maintenance costs, reduce fuel efficiency, and
maybe even reduce quietness a tiny bit.

Subaru is somewhat of a "lesser" marque than
Honda, in terms of reliability.  Most likely
you will not make it to 200k without some engine
work.  Generally, speaking, Subaru cars are higher
maintenance than a typical Honda or Toyota.

If you are aware of these facts, then you will enjoy
a positive experience of owning a Subaru- cars
that have a great AWD system, nice handling in
any model, torquey engines, great safety record.,
and many other attributes.

Basia




- Show quoted text -

I think the jury is still out on the reliability of current day
subarus. I ran a 95 legacy up to 249K miles, then sold it. I did
replace the tranny at 195k though. I didn't need to, but it was going
to need one. The syncros were shot. The newer ones almost all have 2.5
liter engines, which I know was not perfected as of 2003, and I don't
know if post 2003 subarus have gone 200k plus yet.

I do know that my subarus have been much easier to work on than my
honda.I had an 84 prelude that required miniature hands to do anything
under the hood. I tried to replace the starter, and couldn't find the
damn thing. The timing belt was a nightmare. The whole thing caused me
to swear off front wheel drive cars. In all fairness to Honda, that
was a carbureted car, and the fuel injection systems are more compact
than the twin carbs on that prelude, so the engine bay of a modern
honda isn't so crowded, but I bet you have to jack up a modern Honda
to change the oil. Not a subaru. The oil filter is super easy to get
to. Subaru actually cares abotu design for maintenance, which I think
is great.

 

[Cameo]

If I'm not mistaken, the horizontally opposed engine is naturally
balanced so produces little vibration.

Talking about horizontally opposed engine implies to me engines such as
you find on BMW motorcycles. However the 4-cylinder car engines I know
of have their cylinders vertically. So what did you mean by your
statement above?

The 99 Forester has a timing belt and I believe it's an interference
engine. Not that that has anything to do with your question about
recent models!

Honda switched to timing chains in recent models. Probably it was due to
bad experience with belts though I haven't heard of any belt problems
when they were replaced at the recommended intervals.

 

[Cameo]

I do know that my subarus have been much easier to work on than my
honda.I had an 84 prelude that required miniature hands to do anything
under the hood. I tried to replace the starter, and couldn't find the
damn thing. The timing belt was a nightmare. The whole thing caused me
to swear off front wheel drive cars. In all fairness to Honda, that
was a carbureted car, and the fuel injection systems are more compact
than the twin carbs on that prelude, so the engine bay of a modern
honda isn't so crowded, but I bet you have to jack up a modern Honda
to change the oil. Not a subaru. The oil filter is super easy to get
to. Subaru actually cares abotu design for maintenance, which I think
is great.

I can testify to the difficulty of maintaining Honda. I can't even
change oil on my '94 Accord because you have to lift the car to get to
the drain plug and the oil filter. It's ridiculous! I think it was
designed to be maintained by Honda mechanics with specialized tools.

 

[Dean Hoffman]

Talking about horizontally opposed engine implies to me engines such as
you find on BMW motorcycles. However the 4-cylinder car engines I know
of have their cylinders vertically. So what did you mean by your
statement above?

They are horizontally opposed. I've heard them called Boxer
engines.

Honda switched to timing chains in recent models. Probably it was due to
bad experience with belts though I haven't heard of any belt problems
when they were replaced at the recommended intervals.

Subaru recommended replacing the belt at 110,000 miles back in '99.
The oil filter and plug on the 2.5l engine are really easy to get to
from the front on the car.