Subaru Poor reliability in US, Aus trend?

[Vlad]

Hi all,
Since I am in the market for Subaru, I have been doing fair bit of
research on the reliability of the vehicle (Outback)
It seems that Subaru has proven to be very unreliable in the US
market.
As a general trend, people having major
engine/transimission/suspension breakages at under 100k.
In the states, subaru is made locally, hence could this be the root of
all problems? (eg. US made Honda's are lot less reliable that they
Japanese counterparts)
I personally think so, but do Jap made subaru's fair better in the
longevity and reliability? I am planning on keeping the vehicle for
5-7 years and doing fair bit of driving. Last thing I want is to have
major repair bills after the warranty runs out!

Any comments or experiences would be much appreciated
Vlad

 

[Jim Stewart]

Hi all,
Since I am in the market for Subaru, I have been doing fair bit of
research on the reliability of the vehicle (Outback)
It seems that Subaru has proven to be very unreliable in the US
market.

Show me some statistics. Not just usenet posts.

As a general trend, people having major
engine/transimission/suspension breakages at under 100k.

Do you know that for a fact or is it an assumption
based on this group's messages?

I don't think there is any sort of pattern of major
breakages at under 100k. The people that come here
either have a strong interest in Subarus or they come
here for advice regarding problems. For every person
that comes here with a problem, there is probably
100k owners that don't have one.

In the states, subaru is made locally, hence could this be the root of
all problems? (eg. US made Honda's are lot less reliable that they

Mine was made in the US and the only problem I've had
is the front crankshaft oil seal. It's pushing 100k
miles and it's still running smooth and strong. Better,
in fact, than new. If anyone needs to be blamed for the
oil seal issue, it's the Japanese engineers. The seal and
oil pump were certainly assembled properly.

Japanese counterparts)
I personally think so, but do Jap made subaru's fair better in the
longevity and reliability? I am planning on keeping the vehicle for
5-7 years and doing fair bit of driving. Last thing I want is to have
major repair bills after the warranty runs out!

I don't care whether or not you buy a Subaru. In fact,
if you're going to gripe about Subarus and demean US
production, I wished you would buy a Honda.

Any comments or experiences would be much appreciated
Vlad

You got it.

 

[Losiho]

Hi all,
Since I am in the market for Subaru, I have been doing fair bit of
research on the reliability of the vehicle (Outback)
It seems that Subaru has proven to be very unreliable in the US
market.
As a general trend, people having major
engine/transimission/suspension breakages at under 100k.
In the states, subaru is made locally, hence could this be the root of
all problems? (eg. US made Honda's are lot less reliable that they
Japanese counterparts)
I personally think so, but do Jap made subaru's fair better in the
longevity and reliability? I am planning on keeping the vehicle for
5-7 years and doing fair bit of driving. Last thing I want is to have
major repair bills after the warranty runs out!

Any comments or experiences would be much appreciated
Vlad

Well, like you said, the Outback / Legacy that the Yanks get it is made in
the USA, the Australian version is fully imported from Japan - big
difference. I haven't heard of Aussies suffering from broken sway bars or
blown head gaskets (Phase 2 engine) down here.

 

[Tony Burns]

Troll!

 

[Vlad]

I am sorry Jim, but I am by no means trying to belittle US production.
Neither was I trying to make a stand or criticize US quality, esp.
since I don't have first hand experience and yes my observations were
made on user net or various web forums.

I was merely stating the general gist of user net posts that I have
come across.
In fact all I was asking if other Subaru owners would concur with my
conclusion. I don't have any hard statistics on warranty claims or
general Subaru breakages. Finally I was only griping about Subaru US
production since I believe that Japanese quality would be 10 fold
better. However I absolutely love the feel and quality of the latest
MY04 Subaru outback and about to get a large loan to purchase the
vehicle.
Can you blaim me for wanting to find out the pros and cons of Subaru
ownership?!

Vlad

 

[Edward Hayes]

Instead of asking neighbors or looking at news group responses which I think
are stacked with enthusiasts and people with specific problems I go to
Consumers Reports. CRs publish the results of owners (1500 owners minimum
for each model for each year) as to problems and issues. My review of Subaru
in CR indicate that my Subaru Forester is as good as Toyota(RAV4) and
Honda(CRV) and all other Subaru Models. My Subaru was made in Indiana USA
and at 62,000 miles has been an outstanding vehicle. I also looked at
ALLDATA to find the out the type of issues my vehicle had or has and found
very little in the way of issues. Most of the issues were upgrades in the
service techniques used by mechanics and addems to the factory manuals.
eddie

 

[Rick Courtright]

Mine was made in the US and the only problem I've had
is the front crankshaft oil seal. It's pushing 100k
miles and it's still running smooth and strong. Better,

Hi,

I can't or won't speak to the other issues, but IME, front crank seals
going out aroung 75k miles is becoming more common with several makes.
One of the guys at the parts shop says he sees it, too. OTOH, I've seen
cars go 200k miles on the original. I've no idea why the big
differences, but would suggest heat/driving conditions as a prime
suspect.

Rick

 

[Kimball]

Instead of asking neighbors or looking at news group responses which I think
are stacked with enthusiasts and people with specific problems I go to
Consumers Reports. CRs publish the results of owners (1500 owners minimum
for each model for each year) as to problems and issues. My review of Subaru
in CR indicate that my Subaru Forester is as good as Toyota(RAV4) and
Honda(CRV) and all other Subaru Models. My Subaru was made in Indiana USA
and at 62,000 miles has been an outstanding vehicle. I also looked at
ALLDATA to find the out the type of issues my vehicle had or has and found
very little in the way of issues. Most of the issues were upgrades in the
service techniques used by mechanics and addems to the factory manuals.
eddie

It was my understanding thet the Forester, and Impreza models were all still
"Made in Japan". I know my WRX was...

Aside from that, I agree with the views expressed by both Tony and Edward.

(The real question is why the same factory in Indiana turns out both high
quality Subarus AND low quality Isuzus...)

 

[John Opezdol]

I am sorry Jim, but I am by no means trying to belittle US production.
Neither was I trying to make a stand or criticize US quality, esp.
since I don't have first hand experience and yes my observations were
made on user net or various web forums.

I was merely stating the general gist of user net posts that I have
come across.
In fact all I was asking if other Subaru owners would concur with my
conclusion. I don't have any hard statistics on warranty claims or
general Subaru breakages. Finally I was only griping about Subaru US
production since I believe that Japanese quality would be 10 fold
better. However I absolutely love the feel and quality of the latest
MY04 Subaru outback and about to get a large loan to purchase the
vehicle.
Can you blaim me for wanting to find out the pros and cons of Subaru
ownership?!

Cons of Subaru ownership is the cost of maintenance. You won't want to
have it repaired by a random independent mechanic. They tend to screw up.
If only because they don't get their hands on Subarus all that often.
A safe bet therefore is to have the car serviced by a dealer. Not a big deal
for you really
since you can afford a new $20k+ car.

Impreza/Forester/WRX in the US are imported from Japan.
US Outback & Legacy are assembled in some place where people speak slooowly
and work pooorly. But to be fair there are a lot of minor assembly problems
reported
for WRXes.

 

[FFF]

Cons of Subaru ownership is the cost of maintenance. You won't want to
have it repaired by a random independent mechanic. They tend to screw up.
If only because they don't get their hands on Subarus all that often.

From what I've read on this NG, the opposite seems true. Dealers are in the
business of selling you a new car.

Their shops have piles of spare parts available which seems to lead them to
rather extensive repairs and less focus on diagnostic.

Aside from that; they're simply expensive:
I've paid almost $700 (CAN) for a wheel bearing, stub axle and CV boot.

florian

 

[John M.]

Hi all,
Since I am in the market for Subaru, I have been doing fair bit of
research on the reliability of the vehicle (Outback)
It seems that Subaru has proven to be very unreliable in the US
market.
As a general trend, people having major
engine/transimission/suspension breakages at under 100k.
In the states, subaru is made locally, hence could this be the root of
all problems? (eg. US made Honda's are lot less reliable that they
Japanese counterparts)
I personally think so, but do Jap made subaru's fair better in the
longevity and reliability? I am planning on keeping the vehicle for
5-7 years and doing fair bit of driving. Last thing I want is to have
major repair bills after the warranty runs out!

Any comments or experiences would be much appreciated
Vlad

I now have 3 Subarus... an 80 GT, 90 Legacy, and 2002 Outback VDC.
The 80 and 90 are well over 150,000 each (of course) and I have had no
reliability problems with any of my Subarus.

It disturbs me that you would write "It seems that Subaru has proven to be
very unreliable in the US market." Upon what facts do you base this
statement?
Without supporting facts, statements like that tend to show a predisposed
bias and that your mind is already made up.
Regards,
John

 

[John Opezdol]

From what I've read on this NG, the opposite seems true. Dealers are in the
business of selling you a new car.

Hmm, I guess this is where YMV greatly. In my experience the service
department
at the local Subaru dealer did a superb job at making no unnecessary repairs
while an independent
shop struggled (and failed, repeatedly) to find the cause of the problem
making unnecessary
repairs. It was not a bad independent shop mind you, they simply lacked the
experience
to deal with the specific problem I had.

 

[Bruce Hoult]

Cons of Subaru ownership is the cost of maintenance. You won't want to
have it repaired by a random independent mechanic. They tend to screw up.
If only because they don't get their hands on Subarus all that often.

I go to an independent mechanic -- the place attached to the Caltex gas
station 300m down the road from my house, to be precise. They seem to
be OK, and so far we've had them work on an '84 323 wagon, '85 Daihatsu
Charade, '86 Mirage, '91 Toyota Corona, and now our '95 Legacy 250T
wagon.

The owner had a 250T himself, and his good report was one of the reasons
we got ours. He now has a GTB Legacy wagon.

We got our Legacy with 100,000 km on the clock. It'll be hitting
160,000 sometime next week. Until recently it's never needed more than
oil & filters and costs about NZ$120 (US$70) each 10,000 km service,
which is trivial compared to the cost of fuel to travel 10,000 km (about
$1200), and the depreciation (maybe $1000). Our six-monthly WOF
inspections have never cost anything extra.

But it now seems to be falling apart!

While on holiday over new year it developed a bad oil leak, losing up to
a litre for every tank of fuel. It cost me about $25 (US$15) in oil
while on vacation and then $54 (US$35) to have it diagnosed and fixed
when I got home (an O-ring on a bolt in the head had gone bad).

Now this week with a WOF inspection due the right rear door started to
refuse to open from inside the car AND we lost low beam on the left hand
headlight. Today it cost me another $27.50 (US$20) for labour to have
the bulb replaced (plus $17.45, US$10, for the bulb), the door dissected
and fixed, and the tyres rotated (for good measure).

The sharks!

And it's now becoming obvious that Subaru have cleverly engineered
everything in the car to last precisely 100,000 miles and then
self-destruct.

I look forward to the next year's driving with interest.

-- Bruce

 

[mediancat]

i have a 2000 OBS (made in japan). other than a poorly connected (and
shorting) connector in the steering wheel (that caused the horn and
cruise control to not work) and two wheel bearings going out, i
haven't had any other trouble (at 104K now). i used a dealer for all
warrenty work, but i have at least two different, independant
subaru-only mechanics to choose from now since my warrenty has
expired. i've heard too many dealer-service horror stories to trust
them with my car. my advice to you would be to find an independant
subaru only mechanic (or maybe a japanese car specialist) and ask them
what models they see in there the most and what is generally wrong
with them. they are the ones who will see the trends. or ask them
what they would buy. you can preface your request for data with the
notion that you are also looking for a mechanic.

 

[Greg Reed]

From what I've read on this NG, the opposite seems true. Dealers are
in the business of selling you a new car.

Their shops have piles of spare parts available which seems to lead
them to rather extensive repairs and less focus on diagnostic.

Aside from that; they're simply expensive:
I've paid almost $700 (CAN) for a wheel bearing, stub axle and CV
boot.

florian

Modern auto wheel bearings are more expensive than in years past, because
designers often integrate the ABS wheel speed sensor into the wheel bearing
assembly. I don't know for a fact whether this is the case on your
particular Subaru, but it is the case on both of my newer cars (which are
admittedly GM-made). A wheel bearing assembly all by itself for my
Oldsmobile is in the neighborhood of US$400 -- just shy of the CAN$700 cost
for your Subaru's bearing, stub axle, and CV boot. IOW, I don't think it's
fair to assume that *all* Subaru parts are going to be expensive based on
this one example, because this example seems to correlate pretty closely to
other auto parts costs.

- Greg

--
1976 Cadillac Fleetwood 75 9-Pass sedan
(FS: http://www.dataspire.com/caddy)
1989 Audi 200 Turbo Quattro 5-Speed sedan
2000 Oldsmobile Intrigue
2001 Chevy Astro AWD (wife's)
2005 Subaru Legacy GT Wagon (when available in U.S.)

 

[Sparky]

Completely false, in my case. My US-made '96 Outback, w/ auto trans
(yikes!) has gone 234K miles, driven hard, minimum preventative
maintenance, (i.e. orginal trans fluid, brake fluid, rotors), with no
major failures, (expecting oil seals, which are a given on either
Japanese or US-built 'Rus). It is solid, rust free (Eastern PA car...),
quiet with no rattles or shakes, and extremely well-screwed together. I
only hope my Japanese built '02 WRX stands up as well...

 

[FFF]

Completely false, in my case. My US-made '96 Outback, w/ auto trans
(yikes!) has gone 234K miles, driven hard, minimum preventative
maintenance, (i.e. orginal trans fluid, brake fluid, rotors), with no
major failures, (expecting oil seals, which are a given on either
Japanese or US-built 'Rus). It is solid, rust free (Eastern PA car...),
quiet with no rattles or shakes, and extremely well-screwed together. I
only hope my Japanese built '02 WRX stands up as well...

Is that a 2.2l or 2.5?

florian

 

[Mike]

Hi all,
Since I am in the market for Subaru, I have been doing fair bit of
research on the reliability of the vehicle (Outback)
It seems that Subaru has proven to be very unreliable in the US
market.
As a general trend, people having major
engine/transimission/suspension breakages at under 100k.
In the states, subaru is made locally, hence could this be the root of
all problems? (eg. US made Honda's are lot less reliable that they
Japanese counterparts)
I personally think so, but do Jap made subaru's fair better in the
longevity and reliability? I am planning on keeping the vehicle for
5-7 years and doing fair bit of driving. Last thing I want is to have
major repair bills after the warranty runs out!

Any comments or experiences would be much appreciated
Vlad

Well, my '01 OBW just turned 44K miles. It has had more trips to the
dealer and more days down time than my '94 Explorer has had in 120K
miles. Growling brakes, oil pump leak, head gaskets, very loud piston
slap, a bad moonroof switch, and windshield wipers come to mind
without checking my paperwork. And did I mention the dent the dealer
installed in the fender when they did the head gaskets? Now it looks
like the head gaskets are going to be a recurring problem. Just bought
a transmission oil filter - $31 vs. $15 for a Saturn. The only thing I
really like is the AWD, but in case Subaru hasn't noticed they are not
the only manufacturer offering AWD anymore.

Mike

 

[Dominic Richens]

Is that a 2.2l or 2.5?

The 96 AT Outback has the first 2.5l DOHC.

Must have been built on a Wednesday

 

[FFF]

The 96 AT Outback has the first 2.5l DOHC.

Yes, the AT Outback had the 2.5l standard. Same engine in my GT, BTW.
Wasn't 2.5l of that year the beginning of all those head gasket problems?
I am keeping my fingers crossed...

Must have been built on a Wednesday

Wednesday afternoon, if you're lucky.


florian