Subaru Has the Fog Lights Wrong

[y_p_w]

Nope. Or BMW would not be allowed to sell cars in the U.S. that
provide for the use of fog lights without headlights being on. bob

Well - here's the California Vehicle Code....

<http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=0339068090+3+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve>

24403. (a) A motor vehicle may be equipped with not more than
two foglamps that may be used with, but may not be used in
substitution of, headlamps.
(b) On a motor vehicle other than a motorcycle, the foglamps
authorized under this section shall be mounted on the front at
a height of not less than 12 inches nor more than 30 inches and
aimed so that when the vehicle is not loaded none of the
high-intensity portion of the light to the left of the center of
the vehicle projects higher than a level of four inches below the
level of the center of the lamp from which it comes, for a
distance of 25 feet in front of the vehicle.

 

[lkreh]

I don't think this is an unusual setup. My 1999 OBW has the same
setup. Fords have had this setup for years. Probably other makes.

 

[y_p_w]

Well - here's the California Vehicle Code....

<http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=0339068090+3+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve>

Sorry about the broken link. The state of California database only has
a temporary URL for each search that expires in minutes. Just click
on "Vehicle Code" and type "24403" into the search field and search.

<http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html>

 

[Al]

Well - here's the California Vehicle Code....

<http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=0339068090+3+0+0&WAISact
ion=retrieve>

24403. (a) A motor vehicle may be equipped with not more than
two foglamps that may be used with, but may not be used in
substitution of, headlamps.
(b) On a motor vehicle other than a motorcycle, the foglamps
authorized under this section shall be mounted on the front at
a height of not less than 12 inches nor more than 30 inches and
aimed so that when the vehicle is not loaded none of the
high-intensity portion of the light to the left of the center of
the vehicle projects higher than a level of four inches below the
level of the center of the lamp from which it comes, for a
distance of 25 feet in front of the vehicle.

What crap. The whole point of fog lights is that they illuminate from
underneath. This reduces the backscatter from the fog. Haveing the
headlights on reduces the benefit of the fog lights. They also should be
yellow.

Al

 

[y_p_w]

What crap. The whole point of fog lights is that they illuminate from
underneath. This reduces the backscatter from the fog. Haveing the
headlights on reduces the benefit of the fog lights. They also should be
yellow.

I don't know about yours' but all the fog lamps I've seen point down
at an angle. I'm not sure what you mean by "underneath".

There are some people putting in those "bluish" bulbs like Sylvania
Silverstar, Cool Blue, etc in their fog lamp assemblies. That's got
to be really stupid since blue light causes far more backscatter in
fog.

 

[mark jb]

Just went to the garage and tried it out on my 2004 WRX. Fog lamp

It is, for a Stateside model.

Fog comes worse in Europe...a LOT worse.

Ah, Americans must have the fog-light-always-on disease for the fogs to be
set up like that.
We get the odd fog down under, but they tend to be either very light or very
thick where I live, nothing in between. Perfectly clear to solid wall of fog
in less time than it takes to swear and hit the brakes some days.

Course, because we don't get them that often, it's safer to wait and get to
work late than it is to chance the dickheads doing 140kph on an 80kph road
in *solid* fog. None slow down. Most turn on high beams / driving lamps at
night, thinking that a visible beam of light must be a good thing, none
realising they cut your vision in half.

-mark

 

[Michael Pardee]

It is, for a Stateside model.

Fog comes worse in Europe...a LOT worse.

It's hard to imagine fog worse than I experienced in California. I recall
walking to school in San Jose and tripping over a curb because I couldn't
see the ground... and I was only 4 feet tall. It took forever but there was
no way I could ride my bike in that stuff.

Mike

 

[Phil]

The Aussie version (imported from Japan) allows the fog lights to be
switched on as long as the parking (side lights) are on. Don't have to have
headlights on.

phil

 

[nothermark]

Sorry about the broken link. The state of California database only has
a temporary URL for each search that expires in minutes. Just click
on "Vehicle Code" and type "24403" into the search field and search.

<http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html>

It would not surprise me to find that NY has the same kind of law.
Most V&T law here is written by folks from NYC where driving is a rare
thing. Many, if not most, residents never get a license. Most of the
politicans get chauffers because it cheaper than providing parking.

;-)

 

[CompUser]

It's hard to imagine fog worse than I experienced in California. I recall
walking to school in San Jose and tripping over a curb because I couldn't
see the ground... and I was only 4 feet tall. It took forever but there was
no way I could ride my bike in that stuff.

Spent three years in Germany, almost ten in
Monterey county...never saw anything in Cali that
came close.

Look at it this way...ever heard of a *rear*
foglamp?

They're either standard, or a very common option
on European market vehicles. I bought a couple
and mounted em on my vehicles while I was over
there, after seeing they were visible long after
the other tail lamps faded away.

IIRC, the European vehicles could run parking/fog
lites, w/o regular head lamps.

 

[Guest]

Don't know about other models but the "foglights" on my '05OBW are
useless and purely for cosmetic - i.e. sales blurb - purposes. They
don't throw any low concentrated beam forward at road level like real
foglights should, so it really doesn't matter how and when one can
switch them on.

 

[Alan Ronemus]

This nonsensical behavior is a legal requirement in the state of New
Jersey. Since the manufacturers don't want to make a special version of their
products for New Jersey, the rest of us are stuck with it. Most people I
mention it to (who should know better) assume it's correct because it was made
that way. I rewired mine so I can use them with running lights only, and
re-aimed them so they project down the road instead of 4' in front of the
bumper. Indiana has no state inspection, so nobody is the wiser, especially
since I only turn them on in fog!!

 

[R. Gerard]

The Aussie version (imported from Japan) allows the fog lights to be
switched on as long as the parking (side lights) are on. Don't have to have
headlights on.

phil

Great observation. So it is NOT that the Japanese don't understand
how fog lights are supposed to work, it's some bonehead rule in the U.S.
or some bonehead marketing ploy. Crikey...why can't we leave them the
way the Japanese made them. Sigh. Bob

 

[Yousuf Khan]

This is ridiculous!! Anyone who has experience driving in serious
fog understands that using your headlights under such circumstances is
flat wrong. In a thick fog, the tiny suspended water droplets reflect
the light from the headlights right back at you and, far from providing
better visibility, blind you and make it even more difficult to drive.

What you are saying is wrong. This back reflection only occurs if you're
using high beams, not low beams. The low beams are purposefully designed
to point downwards for precisely this and other reasons. The other
reason is that you don't want your low beams blinding oncoming traffic
either. Now I don't know if your have a misaligned headlamp where the
low beams point straight out instead of angled down; if you do, then you
better get the headlights realigned.

Yousuf Khan

 

[R. Gerard]

What you are saying is wrong. This back reflection only occurs if you're
using high beams, not low beams. The low beams are purposefully designed
to point downwards for precisely this and other reasons. The other
reason is that you don't want your low beams blinding oncoming traffic
either. Now I don't know if your have a misaligned headlamp where the
low beams point straight out instead of angled down; if you do, then you
better get the headlights realigned.

Yousuf. I don't know where your driving experience in fog comes
from. Mine comes from Belgium where the fog is world class. In serious
fog on the Autoroutes, the Belge turn on a huge, red fog light on their
rear bumper, shut off their headlights and turn on their fog lights. Or
at least that is what they did 20 years ago when I lived there.

I agree with Michael P., who said:

It sounds like the complaint is that it is not possible to have the fogs on
at all unless the headlights are also on. I agree - that completely defeats
the purpose of fog lights. It just gives the driver a better view of the fog
or snow. If you can stand to have the headlights on at all, you don't really
need fog light.

Happy driving,
bob

 

[R. Gerard]

You can do the 'foglight' mod and have your foglights seperate from the
headlights.

Largo - fabulous. Thanks for the info and the pics. bob

 

[Wandering Willy]

Whether or not you think it should work that way, here is the way it
works here. In NB Canada, where we have fog, fog, and fog (one year,
we had 67 days in a row with no sun)....the rule is fog lights can
ONLY be used with low beam headlights. Not on their own; not with
high beams. Driving lights can only be used with high beams. Not on
their own, not with low beams.

You think you know fog? You haven't lived here.

 

[QX]

Largo - fabulous. Thanks for the info and the pics. bob

Could you please repost that message with the info & pics.
I didn't see it come across the news server I have to use.
Thanks

 

[YKhan]

Yousuf. I don't know where your driving experience in fog comes
from. Mine comes from Belgium where the fog is world class. In serious
fog on the Autoroutes, the Belge turn on a huge, red fog light on their
rear bumper, shut off their headlights and turn on their fog lights. Or
at least that is what they did 20 years ago when I lived there.

My driving experience in fog comes from my driving experience in
falling snow. Over here you can run into snow squalls that are like
walls of white. where you have a tough time seeing to the front of your
hood, let alone ahead on the road. I have experienced the reflection
back towards me when the high beams are on, but not with the low beams.


Besides, I don't really consider these lights to be fog lights, they're
white lights, twenty years ago, you'd call these "driving lights". Fog
lights were the yellow ones. As far as I'm concerned all these Subaru
lights are there for is to fill out the lighting immediately in front
of the bumper and towards the nearest sides.

I gotta wonder how the HID headlights fair in the fog?

Yousuf Khan

 

[Cam Penner]

My driving experience in fog comes from my driving experience in
falling snow. Over here you can run into snow squalls that are like
walls of white. where you have a tough time seeing to the front of your
hood, let alone ahead on the road. I have experienced the reflection
back towards me when the high beams are on, but not with the low beams.


Besides, I don't really consider these lights to be fog lights, they're
white lights, twenty years ago, you'd call these "driving lights". Fog
lights were the yellow ones. As far as I'm concerned all these Subaru
lights are there for is to fill out the lighting immediately in front
of the bumper and towards the nearest sides.

Fog lamps are defined more by the pattern of the beam than
the colour of the lens.

I'll agree though, the factory ones aren't particularly
good examples of anything.