Oil leaks at 59,000 miles ??? !!!

[MN]

Does Toyota have two series of seals, the ones they put
on a $20k Toyota that leak, and then some they spend an extra 50 cents
on they put in a Lexus that doesn't, for which they charge an extra
$15k? I'd love to sit in on a session with THOSE beancounters!

Sounds funny but who knows.
I would not be surprised at all if they had different type seals
for their upscale models. The overall reliability of a car doesn't
come from just superior engineering of a few main components
but from enhanced reliability of each tiny little part. Say you
have ten parts, each with 10% probability of failure, this results
in a product that is certain to break. For a reliable car with
hundreds of subcomponents even slight improvement in all
pieces can add significantly to overall results.

But back to perspective on maintenance: my Subie needed seals about
every 60k (didn't always get 'em), and about $25 covered the cost (I do
my own wrenching.) It blew up at 360k miles (not a seal issue, BTW), so
seal cost would have maxed at around $150. So, averaging about 30k mi/yr
on that car, once every two years I had to toss in an extra $25 in parts
and maybe an extra hour in labor when doing the t-belts (I work
slowly!), and the reward was a car that went over a third of a million
hard miles (including lots of dirt roads and other less than perfect
stuff that probably reduced its life by a third to a half.) It all seems
pretty cheap to me in the grand scheme of things.

It is. Most of the time it makes more sense to keep
an older car then to buy a new one, especially if the thing
has a good track record. A new car has a sort of very
costly reliability insurance premium attached to it. A lot
of people who would admire you for your accomplishment
(360k) would also be scared as hell to rely on such an old. or
high milage vehicle. They would get rid of a perfect car once
it got to 120k or so. I guess the risk aversion with respect to
reliable transportation is just very very high, at least for the
working class whose jobs are at stake.

There's no such thing as a perfect car. For every strong point in a
design, there almost always will be a weak one. You've just gotta learn
what your tolerance level is! BTW, speaking of tolerance levels, I've
gotta hand it to you for perseverance with that 2.8 GM engine! I never
knew anyone to go more than about 50k before they'd had it with that
thing! In fact, is is true GM sold a huge number of them to Jeep just to
get rid of them?

I enjoy this torqey American push-rod engine very much.
It is wonderful in the mountains where I live. No wonder Jeep
took the thing. Perseverance with it? Well, I owned a couple
of FIAT's, when I lived for many years in Eastern Europe, so
the 2.8L GM was really not a big deal, please believe me ))

MN

 

[Jim Stewart]

Exactly. I went against my better judgement, as I had sworn JL off
forever.

It would be nice to know what you're replying to.

 

[Mickey]

I've got a '99 Outback Sedan (it was actually called the "SUS" -- Sport
Utility Sedan -- for that year only). Has 59,0000 miles. Came back
from a 4-hour trip (each way) the other day and smoke was pouring out
from under the hood! So I took it to my local mechanics who told me
both the front and rear engine seals needed replacing, and that this was
a common problem with Subarus.
......

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Before dropping the big bucks, take a look at your front drive shaft
boots. Seeing the age of your car they could be failing. The inner
one on the right side when it goes will sling grease on to the exhaust
system. Talk about smoke.

Has happened to my 00 OBW while on a trip. Fortunately, I was a
family's house and was able to make repairs myself. New boots,
cleaned off the exhaust system, no smoke.

Mickey

 

[Bart]

Oh my gawd, Jiffy Lubes' are terrible!!!

I'm sitting there and I see 2 techs huddled over my engine tugging...so
I go out and ask what the heck are they doing? They were trying to get
the air filter cover back on..

They left me with a oil leak (I think it was just that the filter didn't
seal or something) -- I did NOT want them to touch the car again, so I
just had it changed by another place and it was fine after that.

 

[j]

I'm replying to Joe. Joe Mama.

 

[j]

Then read the previous posts.

 

[j]

I am replying to the post prior to mine. Sorry for being so vague.

 

[Donkey Agony]

Mulder is right.

There is *no way* a mechanic can tell if the front,
rear, or both seals are bad without thoroughly
degreasing the engine and transmission then watching
closely. My bet is a front seal. Shouldn't cost
more than $400-500 if you just do the seal, and no
more than $700-$800 if you also replace the water
pump, timing belt and tensioner (which I would do
if it were my car).

You were both right on target. It was just the front seals, but Subaru
service also also replaced the water pump, timing belt and tensioner.
It cost me about $860 (including tax). They said the rear seal did not
appear to be leaking at all.

I should have asked them how much it would have cost me to additionally
do the rear seals if it had been needed. The $2,600 figure the original
mechanic at the Exxon station quoted for replacing both seals (and pump,
timing belt ...) seems pretty high. The Exxon is really close by -- two
blocks away -- and I often use them for the small stuff, but I'm
thinking I should avoid them from now on for any "real" work.

As to getting rid of the car because it's old, I'll
buy it from you My '99 has 116,000 miles and is
not showing it's age yet and my daughter needs a
car.

Thank you!

I've decided to keep it after all for at least another year; it was paid
off two years ago, and the thought of 3-5 years of big monthly payments
dissuaded me. I must admit, though, the new 3.0 R sedans looked mighty
tempting. OTOH, they were $28,000 for the remaining 2005s and
$30,000 for the 2006s...

Interesting that they don't make a 4-cylinder sedan any more...

Find a mechanic that is good with Subaru's. They
are a little different and it's worthwhile to find
someone that's experienced. If nothing else, you
can tell us your city and see if anyone knows of
a good mechanic. The front oil seal leak is a
common problem.

I got it done at the local Subaru dealer service in Alexandria,
Virginia. Anyone from around here know of an excellent Subaru mechanic
here they would recommend over the dealer's service, or should I just
stick with the dealer?

Thanks to everyone who weighed in in this thread -- I learned a lot.
Much appreciated.

 

[Jim]

I've got a '99 Outback Sedan (it was actually called the "SUS" -- Sport
Utility Sedan -- for that year only). Has 59,0000 miles. Came back
from a 4-hour trip (each way) the other day and smoke was pouring out
from under the hood! So I took it to my local mechanics who told me
both the front and rear engine seals needed replacing, and that this was
a common problem with Subarus.

I've taken very good care of this car (the car was fine in mid-August
when it was gone over with a fine-tooth comb).

Well, I really loved the Outbacks -- up until now. If this is really a
common problem with Subarus, that does it.

Which sedans are available today that are more or less equivalent to the
Outback (high level off the ground...) but that are better made? Any
suggestions?

I've taking the car into the Subaru dealer service tomorrow to get the
seals replaced (and I'm going to complain loudly in the hopes they may
give me a break -- my local mechanic said it should cost somewhere
around $2,600 if they were to do it!). Then, since it's 7 years old,
and things seem to be starting to head south, I'm going to sell it and
buy a new car -- maybe right away, maybe in 6 months.

I had a similar diagnosis for my 1997 with the 2.2 liter engine at
about 115K miles. Price quoted ranged from $1500-2000 to replace "all
seals and gaskets" essentially. I just kept driving it and never
needed to add oi between 3k changes. So I just put up with the smell
after long drives and put cardboard under the engine in the garage.

Then this past summer the main crankshaft pulley failed and in the
course of a total of about $900 in repairs an o-ring, a sealing
belt(?) and oil seal were replaced. Voila, no oil leaks any more. So
as others may have said, it would be best to start with a clean engine
to find out exactly where the leak is.

 

[R Sweeney]

First, thanks to everybody who has answered my initial query. One thing
impressive is that people here seem very devoted to Subaru despite
apparent flaws in some of their older models.

You should own a Ford Explorer for a few years to understand our happiness
with Subaru.

 

[Michael Pardee]

You should own a Ford Explorer for a few years to understand our happiness
with Subaru.

;-) I understand! I recall a certain Dodge....

I very much appreciate the candor of the people here related to common flaws
in Subies. I don't own one yet but am just investigating. *Every* car has
defects, and it is all a matter of finding one with quirks I am prepared to
live with.

My oldest son had an '82 Subaru sedan (I forget the model) as his first car.
It was a horribly maintained thing he bought for $700 US. It was a beater in
every sense of the word, perfect for a teenage boy's disposable first car.
Sure enough, he ran wild with oil levels (filling it to the point of
hydraulic lock once, letting it run dry and seizing the engine another time
and then throwing a rod), ran it off the end of the service ramps, and
ultimately let his girl friend drive it with bad results. The poor
maintenance ensured it would be a repair hog. It was almost a relief when we
had to replace the engine he blew up, and I was pleased by our ability to
lift the old one out and place the "new" one in with our hands. The only
misgiving I have about the model was that the oil guage always read 0 after
warm-up, even with the old replacement engine. I was told it was just the
nature of the beast.

No car is perfect, and I only worry when I'm told one is.

Mike