manual or automatic?

[MN]

Ignore the trolls. Subarus are amongst the best built, best engineered
most reliable cars in the world. Plenty of evidence in the customer
satisfaction surveys.

Trolls aside, but are you suggesting that Subaru has not had
some fairly serious quality problems in recent years? Are you
blind perhaps?

The rear-wheel bearing issue is certainly well known, and so is
the head gasket problem. Both of these are real, expensive
to fix issues, and definetely not imagined ones!!!

I almost had to dish out 800 USD for rear bearings replacement.
Both failed at 19k miles- out of basic warranty, as if the car
was not a Japanese brand but some lousy quality Chrysler from
the 80s. This was an absolutely unexcusable failure at such low
milage.

Subaru does want to admitt the bearings faultiness but it is widely
known among Impreza owners that some of their bearings are
utter crap. The Subaru dealer when pressed hard agreed not
to charge me for the parts (as a gesture of goodwill on their part).
I am thankful for that, but I still had to cough up several hunderd
$$ for the labor.

The head gasket issue is notorious, costly, and a much bigger
pain in the butt, as it concerns a vital part of the car- the engine!

MN

 

[KLS]

The difference on a Rex is between 25.000 and 65,000 miles. Don't know
anybody who has got much more than 65 out of a clutch. The point is -
and I've made this before - that a powerful awd car can't dissipate
excess power at launch as wheelspin, therefore it has to slip the
clutch. Also, powerful awd drive cars put a trememdous load on their
transmission and there has to be a weak link somewhere. Much cheaper
and simpler to change a clutch than to change a gearbox <g>. Simply
regard it as a consumable - like tyres and brakes.

Are you trolling? I can't believe you are seriously posting this
preposterous theory. I drive a 98 Audi A4 2.8 quattro car, and I've
got 90k miles on the original clutch, even with heavy driving and
extensive use of the car's excellent power. I have no intention of
trashing my clutch, and I drive properly. These good cars are
engineered well all over, and the only thing that should go before 65k
miles are brake pads, a true wear item. Our 99 Subaru Legacy Outback
did get a new clutch at 79k miles only because we bought the car used
at 66k miles, and the previous owner drove probably like you do.

 

[KLS]

No. Anyone who gets leg pain from using a clutch is desperately unfit.
Anybody with normal levels of fitness, ie capable of walking a few
miles, will have no problems.

This, I agree with.

 

[R. Gerard]

The difference on a Rex is between 25.000 and 65,000 miles. Don't know
anybody who has got much more than 65 out of a clutch.

Gimme a break, please. I am 66. Got my first car in 1965 and since
then I have owned only one car with an automatic transmission.

In all those cars, I have replaced one clutch.

My current 92 525i BMW has 105,000 miles and the original clutch.

Gunny

 

[Bruce Hoult]

Gimme a break, please. I am 66. Got my first car in 1965 and since
then I have owned only one car with an automatic transmission.

In all those cars, I have replaced one clutch.

My current 92 525i BMW has 105,000 miles and the original clutch.

Indeed.

I have an automatic Subaru :-( but all previous cars and motorcycles
have been manual. I replaced the clutch in my last car, a 2.0l Toyota
Corona liftback, at just over 200,000 km (125,000 miles), but only
because it was already being opened up in that area due to a warranty
gear box recondition (I got a 3 year mechanical warranty with it when I
bought the car at 160,000 km) so all I had to pay for was the parts.
the mechanic said the clutch looked to have at least another couple of
years wear in it bu I figured it was better to not use the entire clutch
plate than to have to pay to open it all up again later.

 

[Patrick]

i have a friend who was still driving is 1993 AUDI with 320,000 km on the
original clutch..... car, quality driver. make a big difference

Pat

 

[grape]

So you feel Subaru aint high quality due to HG and bearing problems?

I am kinda scared run off for a Toyota

 

[grape]

ok, and my Current Toyota camry le v6 1994 has 388,000 km on it!!!

so Toyota outruns Audi? haha

 

[MN]

So you feel Subaru aint high quality due to HG and bearing problems?

I think you misdirected your question to someone else.

Yes, I really do think the bearings problem (Impreza's),
and particularly the head gasket issue (2.5L engine) are
signs of an engineering quality problem.

If it were Hyundai's gaskets failing so frequently and Hyundai's
bearings falling apart you wouldn't probably hesitate to call it
a quality problem.

Why not call things by their name in case of Subaru?

MN

ps. with respect to the clutches issue i.e. some people
quoting very long lifespan on non-AWD cars; David Betts
mentioned specifically AWD as having a life shortening
effect (and in high powered vehicles -WRX's, etc.), and that
is absolutely true, unless you decide to drive a sporty car in
a grandfatherly fashion, so to speak.

 

[David Betts]

Indeed.

I have an automatic Subaru :-( but all previous cars and motorcycles
have been manual. I replaced the clutch in my last car, a 2.0l Toyota
Corona liftback, at just over 200,000 km (125,000 miles)...etc

Points taken, guys, but we are talking about a Rex here. This is a
rocket ship. It is in a totally different league to the cars you are
talking about. These cars are designed to use up their clutches. All
I'm saying is that purchasers should get used to the idea or buy
something else.

David Betts
(e-mail address removed)

 

[David Betts]

Trolls aside, but are you suggesting that Subaru has not had
some fairly serious quality problems in recent years? Are you
blind perhaps?

Here we go again. Not getting into it. Fed up to the back teeth with
twhiners and whingers who infest this newsgroup. They are a tiny
minority in relations to the vast majority of satisfied Subaru owners
throughout the world.

David Betts
(e-mail address removed)

 

[Nige]

Gimme a break, please. I am 66. Got my first car in 1965 and since
then I have owned only one car with an automatic transmission.

In all those cars, I have replaced one clutch.

My current 92 525i BMW has 105,000 miles and the original clutch.

Gunny

Indeed, I have a two & a half ton Land Rover that's still on it's orginal clutch after 240k miles!!!

What a load of bollocks he spouted!


Nige

--
Subaru WRX (Annabel)

Landrover 110 County Station Wagon (Tyson)

'"Say hello to my little friend"

 

[MN]

Here we go again. Not getting into it. Fed up to the back teeth with
twhiners and whingers who infest this newsgroup. They are a tiny
minority in relations to the vast majority of satisfied Subaru owners
throughout the world.

Most of Subaru miles are probably driven in US and Australia
and from these people we hear the majority of complaints.

I think it is not the European (or Japanese) driver who on average
makes a tiny amount of miles per year and drives in a cool moist
climate that sees bearings and headgasket failures. I suspect both
these problematic Subaru issues may be somewhat related to higher
temps, and drier climates, where natural air cooling is poorer.

I know my bearings went out after two relatively prolonged
higher speed runs from Reno Nevada to Los Angeles CA in
95 degree weather (400 miles one way at an average speed of
80-90 mph), and a long hot summer trip through Arizona, from
Reno to Albuquerque New Mexico, and back.

US drivers, like myself, who have experienced problems may
not be just a tiny minority of Subaru owners worldwide as you
inconsiderately suggest but a subset of drivers who may be
discovering a defect hidden away from drivers in cool, moist,
parts of the world.


MN

 

[Tom Reingold]

The difference on a Rex is between 25.000 and 65,000 miles. Don't know
anybody who has got much more than 65 out of a clutch. The point is -
and I've made this before - that a powerful awd car can't dissipate
excess power at launch as wheelspin, therefore it has to slip the
clutch. Also, powerful awd drive cars put a trememdous load on their
transmission and there has to be a weak link somewhere. Much cheaper
and simpler to change a clutch than to change a gearbox <g>. Simply
regard it as a consumable - like tyres and brakes.

David Betts
(e-mail address removed)

True, a clutch is a consumable, but too bad it costs so much. After all
the money we save on gas, we lose it when it's time to replace the
clutch. Most automatics don't ever need replacement.

Tom

 

[Rick Courtright]

clutch. Most automatics don't ever need replacement.

Hi,

You're excluding American autos? I've known a lot of Ford and Chevy
owners who might disagree with you.

Rick

 

[k. ote]

Actually, most people drive manual transmission cars incompetently, so
you should assume that the clutch in this one, especially since it's a
sporty car, won't last a lot longer. Save the $700 for a new clutch,
starting now. My other half had to replace her clutch at 79k miles
because the previous owner didn't treat it well, and neither did she,
but she's doing much better with the new clutch after that expensive
lesson. The clutch in my 98 Audi is still going perfectly at 89k
miles, and I expect never to replace it for as long as I own the car,
which will be probably another 10 years.

This is the part where you describe exactly what you mean by
"incompetently." What, precisely, do people do to their manual
trannies?

 

[KLS]

This is the part where you describe exactly what you mean by
"incompetently." What, precisely, do people do to their manual
trannies?

People who use their clutches incompetently ride their clutches, viz.,
they don't fully depress or release the clutches when engaging the
gears. They also frequently depress the clutches at higher speeds (30
mph or so) and leave them depressed while braking rather than engaging
the appropriate gears. Another fun way to ruin a clutch is to rock
the car at a stop light by partially releasing the clutch and
depressing the gas just shy of engaging the gear rather than fully
depressing the clutch and waiting for the light to change before
releasing the clutch and fully engaging first gear. Just a few
examples.

 

[grape]

I assume that clutch can only have chance to be ruined during engaging....
like depress half-way. but when fully depressed during brake, the clutch
plate ain't touched to anything, how come there still could be wear if you
fully depressed?!

 

[DK]

No. Anyone who gets leg pain from using a clutch is desperately unfit.
Anybody with normal levels of fitness, ie capable of walking a few
miles, will have no problems.

Well, as someone who drives manual and loves it, I'd partially
disagree: Yes, having pain from using a clutch is a sign if a
pre-existing serious medical condition BUT it does get extremely
tedious and boring to use clutch in the 20+ min jams. I rarely
have to endure it but if I were, I'd buy automatic.

Good deal if the car is in great shape.

DK

 

[David Betts]

I assume that clutch can only have chance to be ruined during engaging....
like depress half-way. but when fully depressed during brake, the clutch
plate ain't touched to anything, how come there still could be wear if you
fully depressed?!

It won't. His other explanations of excessive clutch wear are correct,
however.

On the other hand, it is perfectly possible to destroy a clutch on a
WRX without doing any of these things, but simply by launching
enthusiastically on a regular basis. This, rather than generating
wheelspin and rubber smoke as with a conventional 2wd car, will fill
the car with the acrid stench of burning clutch material.

Correct technique if you want the clutch to last is to get the car
rolling whilst just on boost and release the clutch before flooring
ithe throttle. This way, you will disappear into the middle distance
just as quickly, but with far less fuss and at far less cost in the
longer term.

As I said previously, lots of people get through the clutch on their
first Rex in as little as 25,000 miles. Those of us who know what we
are doing can make them last 65,000 miles of mixed driving. If one
spent all one's time on freeways, no doubt it could be made to last
longer......or if one drove like an old lady all the time, but then
what's the point of owning a Rex <g>.

David Betts
(e-mail address removed)