Ideas/thoughts on Subaru's upscale movement?

[N]

I know someone with an Audi Allroad and it has some very impressive
features, such being able to change the car's height, the retractable
towing hitch, etc.; it's sort a Swiss Army knife of a vehicle. But the
price is pretty high and it's still a smallish car. I can't help but
look at the Allroad and think of the many alternatives at lower
prices. The Outbacks, even the priciest versions, undercuts the
Allroad's price.

And, given what I've heard about Audi reliability, you may also enjoy more
frequent contact with the service department.

According to Consumer Reports, many/most of the German cars sold in
the US have reliability problems. I've also read that many of the
German cars are so high-tech (example: BMWs with the iDrive feature)
that they're difficult for many drivers to use, while at the same time
the reliability of many German cars has gone way down. The emphasis
has gone into going high tech and they're not paying enough attention
to quality and reliability.

Meanwhile, the Japanese makers are being more conservative and keeping
quality and reliability as priorities.

 

[Rick Courtright]

It seems to me that Subaru is going the way of VW and trying to get
away from the low-priced market, where they haven't done well, and
move to at least a few upmarket, low-volume, yet high-profit models.

Only one person's POV, but my family had VW Bugs from around 1955 until
the mid-80s. I've lost count of how many, but they were all good
transportation vehicles, not particularly great in any department, just
reliable and easy/inexpensive to keep running. We bought more of them
for these very reasons.

When VW came out with the water-cooled models in the mid-70s, they sold
us a few. And, in general, those cars were such pieces of junk that
nobody in the family has bought or will ever buy another VW. According
to car mags and biz pages over the years, we weren't the only defectors,
and VW's spent the last 25 years trying to rebuild a market they threw
away. Look at the way they gear their advertising today: mainly to young
buyers who weren't around to see "the fall." And, according to the car
section in last Saturday's local paper, VW's never been able to regain
lost ground, and, with rising prices, is losing MORE in the US market.
Touaregs and Phaetons will never take the place of a mid-range market
IMO.

I see some parallels with Subaru, and think there's a lesson for them to
learn. People buy cars for lots of reasons, but reasonably priced,
reliabale transportation's still at the top of the list for lots of us.
When you go to a dance, don't forget the one who brought you!

Rick

 

[Rick Courtright]

the reliability of many German cars has gone way down. The emphasis
has gone into going high tech and they're not paying enough attention
to quality and reliability.

That's what I call the "myth of German engineering." Nothing new--it's
been that way for 60 years or better. Read the reports of the initial
field testing of the Panzer tanks in WWII! As a friend and I (both
having a bit of Teutonic blood) like to joke, "Have I ever told you why
our ancestors lost the war?" Looks like they'll lose this one, too.

Rick

 

[N]

Only one person's POV, but my family had VW Bugs from around 1955 until
the mid-80s. I've lost count of how many, but they were all good
transportation vehicles, not particularly great in any department, just
reliable and easy/inexpensive to keep running. We bought more of them
for these very reasons.

We had a Bug and a Kharmann Ghia (just the Bug in disguise) and while
they weren't particularly good at anything, I appreciated the
simplicity of the design.

When VW came out with the water-cooled models in the mid-70s, they sold
us a few. And, in general, those cars were such pieces of junk that
nobody in the family has bought or will ever buy another VW. According
to car mags and biz pages over the years, we weren't the only defectors,
and VW's spent the last 25 years trying to rebuild a market they threw
away. Look at the way they gear their advertising today: mainly to young
buyers

However, VW is one way in the US the envy of other car makers, because
VW has the youngest average for buyers: 37. Compare that to the age of
the full-size Lincoln buyer: 70. Lincoln won't see many repeat buyers
for that model! ;-)

Cadillac is successfully pushing down the age of the buyers with their
more recent, aggressively-styled and advertised models. Toyota found
the Echo wasn't helping them reach younger buyers, and now they have
the Scion brand, aimed at young buyers.

who weren't around to see "the fall." And, according to the car
section in last Saturday's local paper, VW's never been able to regain
lost ground, and, with rising prices, is losing MORE in the US market.
Touaregs and Phaetons will never take the place of a mid-range market
IMO.

Those may represent the direction VW wants to go in and/or those new,
pricey VWs may give some luster to the cheaper VWs.

At the moment, the Passat is the only VW that Consumer Reports
recommends, due to the reliability problems with the cheaper models. I
think CR tested the Touareg V6 model briefly, but found it
underpowered. No test for the Phaeton yet, if memory serves.

I sat in and looked at a Phaeton at a car show and it seemed pretty
nice, but wouldn't spend that much for a VW. Then again, I thought
nobody would want really high-priced Nissans and Toyotas, yet the
Infiniti and Lexus cars were a big hit as soon as they were
introduced, so I could be wrong. But Infiniti and Lexus had the
advantage of the excellent reputation of their cheaper brands and many
of those owners wanted to move up to luxury cars. VW isn't in that
position now, although I think the cheaper VWs are pretty nifty
looking and have some cachet due to that.

Hyundai/Kia, with the Amati, are also looking at moving upmarket.
Mazda planned to have a luxury line with a new brand name, but
abandoned that.

I see some parallels with Subaru, and think there's a lesson for them to
learn. People buy cars for lots of reasons, but reasonably priced,
reliabale transportation's still at the top of the list for lots of us.

People like us are looking for a car as a commodity and for practical
reasons. Subaru may want to start luring in customers with more $$$
and more desire for luxury and exclusivity.

I do know of somebody who made an interesting choice a few years ago,
a woman who looked at the Outback, but was turned off by the gold
lettering. So instead, she bought a 5-series BMW station wagon. So
that's at least one example of a wealthier (at least, wealthier than
me!) customer who looked at Subaru when she obviously could afford
more. So by giving the Outback a more elegant look this year and
advertising aggressively in magazines, Subaru may be looking to
attract customers like her, who can afford the higher prices too.

When you go to a dance, don't forget the one who brought you!

I know what you mean, but for at least a few models, Subaru may want
to attract more well-heeled customers.

Rick

(snip)

 

[Hallraker]

Subaru has always struggled in the US for various reasons, such as not
having many models to choose from. Maybe they're thinking that they
need a find a niche they can hold on to.

Given that Audi moved upscale and also stresses AWD, I can see that
Subaru might want to take Audi's place. An acquaintance has an Audi
Allroad, similar to the following:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2489749443&category=80731

It's pretty impressive, although a turbo 6-cylinder model is priced
around $40k, and V8 Allroads can go for $80, although I've never seen
one. It's about the same size or smaller than the Outback. If you see
the Allroad as a competitor to the Outback, the Outback starts looking
like an excellent deal by comparison, and thus Subaru could justify
nudging the Outback's price towards the Allroad's price.

Here in America, at least, people put a lot of emphasis on cylinders. Thus,
to the average buyer here, a turbo four isn't as good as a NA six, and a
turbo or supercharged six isn't as good as a NA eight. So really, in order
to truly compete with an 80k V8 powered car, they'd need an H8 or at least a
twin-turbo H6.

-Matt

 

[N]

Here in America, at least, people put a lot of emphasis on cylinders. Thus,
to the average buyer here, a turbo four isn't as good as a NA six, and a
turbo or supercharged six isn't as good as a NA eight.

BTW, as I understand it, for towing, you'd want more cylinders, not a
turbo. 25 years ago, turbos looked like the Next Big Thing, but now
the car makers seem to be able to get plenty of power w/o turbos.

So really, in order
to truly compete with an 80k V8 powered car, they'd need an H8 or at least a
twin-turbo H6.

Perhaps so, although I doubt that there's really much need to compete
with an $80k V8 Audi Allroad. I see very few Allroads and I suspect
that the $80k version sells poorly, if at all. I was only aware of it
after I looked it up in a magazine.

But I bet the $80k version of the Allroad makes the dealers and their
sales staff happy, if they ever do sell one! But it's a lot smaller
than luxury SUVs like the Range Rover and Porsche Cayenne that are
near $80k. Not that I really know; I'll never be able to afford that
sort of vehicle. Well, maybe I could, if I didn't have to send anybody
to college and retire... ;-)

Seems to me that I read somewhere that Subaru will eventually have a
7-passenger SUV, but I doubt it'll cost anything like $80k. The extra
rear seat seems to be a hot feature in SUVs in recent years,
completing the whole family-minivan-in-drag metamorphosis of the SUV.

 

[Hallraker]

Seems to me that I read somewhere that Subaru will eventually have a
7-passenger SUV, but I doubt it'll cost anything like $80k. The extra
rear seat seems to be a hot feature in SUVs in recent years,
completing the whole family-minivan-in-drag metamorphosis of the SUV.

I've not seen any pictures or concept art of the new vehicle, but my hope is
that the new "suv" is really just a return of the classic American station
wagon, sort of like the new Dodge Magnum, which is also referred to as an
SUV. The last thing I want to see is some bloated tippy box with the Subaru
emblem on it.

-Matt

 

[tcassette]

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7528&sid=178&n=158

 

[N]

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7528&sid=178&n=158

Thanks! With all that tape on the front, it somehow looks like the
recent small Mitsubishi SUVs, like the Outlander. The rest looks like
a larger Pontiac Vibe.

If oil supplies don't get worse and the SUV fad doesn't die out, the
big Subaru could sell well, I guess. At least it gives Subaru in the
US another model to gain consumers' attention.

(snip)

 

[Hallraker]

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7528&sid=178&n=158

Thanks for the link. It's a bit too thick in the sides, I think - reminds
me a lot of the Porsche Cayenne in proportions.

Pontiac version? It's a dark day when Pontiac gains access to reliable
technology. People might actually start thinking that Pontiacs are good.
I'm guessing the Pontiac version will have red dash lights, a heads-up
display, a gigantic spoiler, and of course, driving excitement, or something
like that.

-Matt