Do you have a set of winter tires?

[Paul]

Is that how Honda CR-V does it?

The CR-V uses front wheel drive normally, with a hydraulic mechanism to
provide instant power to the rear wheels when there is slippage. Google
has info on this system.

Subaru does not use just one system. There are several. The MT often use a
viscous clutch that takes a quarter wheel spin to provide power. The 4EAT
uses clutches that run 90/10 front to back normally and provide variable
degrees of power to the rear wheels on slippage. The on-board computer
monitors wheel slippage and adjusts lock up on the fly.

As for needing winter tires, a 4WD system needs them MORE than two axle
drive systems for safe driving in icy weather. Many people endanger
others' lives by not fitting winter tires, and in many jurisdictions that
is allowed. In other places, the couple of weeks of cool weather do not
necessitate winter tires at all.

 

[Paul]

I have put snow tires on my FWD Pontiac G5, but none on my Sube.
However, snows make a huge difference on the Pontiac. Whereas I would be
tiptoeing around just the corners of my street, I can take them pretty
much at summer speeds.

The AWD on the Sube gives me some of the same advantages, but I think I
would be able to stop a lot quicker if I did have snows on them too.
Might even be able to corner a bit faster.

You will find the Soob handles much better on snow and ice with winter tires
than not. The difference is night and day, just like with the G5. Not
only that, but by switching in an extra set of tires for the winter, the
summer tires last longer. No need for super expensive tires, either.
Tirerack.com has some reports comparing various tires.

 

[Philip Procter]

Got an Sti and live just south of Buffalo NY. I've had LOTS of winter
experience!

I buy max performance summer tires and Blizzaks for winter. The summer
rubber is great but useless on snow. Change them myself, no cost
penalty since you're using the same miles, but on two sets of tires,
so they last twice as long.

There's a huge difference in running on snow between the Blizzaks and
the All Season's on my wife's Legacy Outback. It's fine with all
season but very stable and controlled in even the worst snow with the
Blizzaks. On ice, forget the all seasons - uselss in comparison!

A old friend told me 30 years ago that all a snow tire needs to do is
stop you 1 foot shorter at a critical rtime and you've payed for all
the tires you'll use in your life!

Philip

 

[1 Lucky Texan]

Got an Sti and live just south of Buffalo NY. I've had LOTS of winter
experience!

I buy max performance summer tires and Blizzaks for winter. The summer
rubber is great but useless on snow. Change them myself, no cost
penalty since you're using the same miles, but on two sets of tires,
so they last twice as long.

There's a huge difference in running on snow between the Blizzaks and
the All Season's on my wife's Legacy Outback. It's fine with all
season but very stable and controlled in even the worst snow with the
Blizzaks. On ice, forget the all seasons - uselss in comparison!

A old friend told me 30 years ago that all a snow tire needs to do is
stop you 1 foot shorter at a critical rtime and you've payed for all
the tires you'll use in your life!

Philip

I'm a flatlander from a warm State, but you have just reiterated what
I've read from other's living in snow country. The BEST all-season is
worse in snow than the worst 'snow' tire.

I think your tire usage is what I would adopt.

 

[Cameo]

I buy max performance summer tires and Blizzaks for winter. The summer
rubber is great but useless on snow. Change them myself, no cost
penalty since you're using the same miles, but on two sets of tires,
so they last twice as long.

What tire brand and type is used on new Subarus as the default?

 

[AD]

Is that how Honda CR-V does it?

I think so, and just about any other front wheel drive garb, er,
crossover.
On CR-V the delay probably is not as humongous. If I had to guess it's
probably around 1/20th of a second.
On an other wise frontwheeldriver long delay basically serves nothing
escept irritating the driver
which is why there is a subaru with the alway on symmetrical layout :
works fine if your objective
is not to get stuck - not so fine if your objective is to have some
fun in the process
which is where 325xi comes into the picture if you just got to have
some power to both axles
on those occasions when your car has to serve as a plow.

 

[AD]

I take it that you now live in the Pacific NW as I do. I managed the
prior two winters with my Honda Accord without snow tires but this time
I put them on the front drive wheels. They do help in packed snow but
are not much help during slick conditions, unfortunately. In such
instances I wish I had them studded, but I've had similar studed tire
exprerience to yours in the past. Those studs just don't last very long.
I am considering buying a Legacy or Impreza and that's why I am asking
my questions here.

Hmm, I'm getting a slight vibe that you plan to save some money by
running allseasons. IMHO if that is a concern subaru might not be the
best
choice as you will have to be meticulous about
1. rotating tires
2. replacing all 4-5 as a set when you wear out/blow any one or two of
them.

I currently run some sort of studded Continental knockoffs on my
rear wheel driver and it's fun to have all the power go aft,
but i do wish i had 5-15% torque going to
the front when climbing the proverbial ice and snow covered hill
John McGaw reminded you of in the neighboring post.

 

[AD]

   What tire brand and type is used on new Subarus as the default?

Depends on the Subaru model.
Bridgestone RE-92 used to be common on Impreza up to 2005.
Don't remember how good it was on ice, it was mediocre on snow
and horrible on wet and dry pavement. Basically it's trash
despite the high price. If there are some strong sides in that
tire bridgestone made it's best to hide them well since other
reviewers on tirerack could not find them either.

I believe Legacy, Outback and Forrester lines use different tire
models.

You have to visit the dealer and give us the exact tire model to
provide the posters with enough fodder for yet another tire
thread(tm).

 

[1 Lucky Texan]

Hmm, I'm getting a slight vibe that you plan to save some money by
running allseasons. IMHO if that is a concern subaru might not be the
best
choice as you will have to be meticulous about
1. rotating tires
2. replacing all 4-5 as a set when you wear out/blow any one or two of
them.

I currently run some sort of studded Continental knockoffs on my
rear wheel driver and it's fun to have all the power go aft,
but i do wish i had 5-15% torque going to
the front when climbing the proverbial ice and snow covered hill
John McGaw reminded you of in the neighboring post.

I purposely buy low-lifetime tires for the very reason that I will
someday need to throw away 1/3 the tread life on 3 tires and buy a
full set - just because one is irreparable. Everyone talks about
shaving tires - but that costs, wastes the lifespan of a new tire and
finding someone to do that is not easy.

 

[AD]

I purposely buy low-lifetime tires for the very reason that I will
someday need to throw away 1/3 the tread life on 3 tires and buy a
full set - just because one is irreparable. Everyone talks about
shaving tires - but that costs, wastes the lifespan of a new tire and
finding someone to do that is not easy.

Hmm, shaving summer tires should be a no brainer. but as for winters
i dunno if the customer grade snow or ice tires are nearly as good
as winter slicks.

If you run into something close to a winter slick do let us know,
please.
I would care for a glare ice traction more than for loose snow
whenever I switch to some (>1) wheel driver.

PS: I failed to plow through the loose snow with my rear wheel driver
this morning
(no LSD in the back): had to take public transit to work :-[

 

[Big Jim]

I enjoyed the RE-92's on my OBW until abut 20k miles- Then they got
scary but up til then they were fine yiresin all conditons.

 

[JD]

I purposely buy low-lifetime tires for the very reason that I will
someday need to throw away 1/3 the tread life on 3 tires and buy a
full set - just because one is irreparable. Everyone talks about
shaving tires - but that costs, wastes the lifespan of a new tire and
finding someone to do that is not easy.

Hmm, shaving summer tires should be a no brainer. but as for winters
i dunno if the customer grade snow or ice tires are nearly as good
as winter slicks.

If you run into something close to a winter slick do let us know,
please.
I would care for a glare ice traction more than for loose snow
whenever I switch to some (>1) wheel driver.

PS: I failed to plow through the loose snow with my rear wheel driver
this morning
(no LSD in the back): had to take public transit to work :-[

*** Try putting your left foot on the brake a little with right foot on the
gas. It will act like an LSD by transferring torque to the other wheel. I
did it alot when there were only open diffs on cars..

 

[AD]

I purposely buy low-lifetime tires for the very reason that I will
someday need to throw away 1/3 the tread life on 3 tires and buy a
full set - just because one is irreparable. Everyone talks about
shaving tires - but that costs, wastes the lifespan of a new tire and
finding someone to do that is not easy.

Hmm, shaving summer tires should be a no brainer. but as for winters
i dunno if the customer grade snow or ice tires are nearly as good
as winter slicks.

If you run into something close to a winter slick do let us know,
please.
I would care for a glare ice traction more than for loose snow
whenever I switch to some (>1) wheel driver.

PS: I failed to plow through the loose snow with my rear wheel driver
this morning
(no LSD in the back): had to take public transit to work :-[

*** Try putting your left foot on the brake a little with right foot on the
gas.  It will act like an LSD by transferring torque to the other wheel..  I
did it alot when there were only open diffs on cars..

Thanks. With the three pedals it's easier to modulate the handbrake
though
as I have rear driven wheels. Gotta have fun with the three pedals and
the lever

JD stands for Japanese Domestic?

 

[AD]

I purposely buy low-lifetime tires for the very reason that I will
someday need to throw away 1/3 the tread life on 3 tires and buy a
full set - just because one is irreparable. Everyone talks about
shaving tires - but that costs, wastes the lifespan of a new tire and
finding someone to do that is not easy.

Hmm, shaving summer tires should be a no brainer. but as for winters
i dunno if the customer grade snow or ice tires are nearly as good
as winter slicks.

If you run into something close to a winter slick do let us know,
please.
I would care for a glare ice traction more than for loose snow
whenever I switch to some (>1) wheel driver.

PS: I failed to plow through the loose snow with my rear wheel driver
this morning
(no LSD in the back): had to take public transit to work :-[

*** Try putting your left foot on the brake a little with right foot on the
gas.  It will act like an LSD by transferring torque to the other wheel..  I
did it alot when there were only open diffs on cars..

Ok, i've used handbrakes to apply force to the driven (rear) wheels
only and got
out of my parking spot this morning.

Das ist fantastish.

Thank you JD.

 

[AD]

 Depends where you are and where you want to go. But of course
"overpriced" tires are not required, summer or  winter, on any
vehicle.

That's why the winter tires on my PT are 15" instead of 16, and on the
Mystique they are 14 instead of 15. Higher profile tires are always
available for lower price than low profile tirea of larger rim size
and same rolling diameter.

Of course what that does to the car handling is entirely dependent on
the car in question. With subaru so unwilling to rotate it's not as
much
an issue but as car and driver had recently found out going taller
does make a lot of difference on a properly balanced machine such as
lancer ralliart
with the car becoming much more prone to oversteer at freeway speeds
with 60+ tall sidewalls
on winter tires.

Going down 1" is probably not as bad but there are no reports pouring
in yet
that i'm aware of.

"If" the upcoming Toyaburu FT-85 has the proper power split between
the axles
I'd be very hesitant to go down from 18" to 16" winter rims for that
exact reason.

Being a conservative old fart i'd probably stay on nothing lesser 17"s
for winter even on
cars that are very hard to rotate such as STI.

As for saving a buck or two on a winter set: no matter how many driven
wheels you
have the brake distance goes to infinity (pun intended) as the
temperature drops
snow/ice or not. If you get no ice/snow but temps drop below 40F just
forfeit the studs,
but softer compound is a must to stay out of ditches and the bumpers
of cars in front.
(In a best rendition of a homer simpson voice) umm, snow slicks...

But of course "overpriced" tires are not required

Of course they are not required if you are an aspiring rally driver
and want to test the limits
of the car on every low temp day.

The winter set pays off on the first day when you avoid kissing the
bumper in front.
Unless you are living in one of those "no fault" states that is.

 

[-hh]

I'm a flatlander from a warm State, but you have just reiterated what
I've read from other's living in snow country. The BEST all-season is
worse in snow than the worst 'snow' tire.

The key element is the concept of "Right Tool For The Job", and what
most people don't realize about the question of All-Seasons vs. Snows
is that it isn't just tread pattern - - it is also the rubber
compound. The most graphic examples of this can be found when one
takes a high performance summer tire out on a dry, clear but very cold
(20F) winter morning: over 75% of the tire's grip will be gone.

With the advent of AWD, the question has evolved into "AWD or
Snows?". Obviously, the *best* answer is actually "Both!". But for
someone demanding an exclusive or (XOR logic), the answer is that
Snows are better than AWD, roughly 80% of the time.

This was as per testing done by Car & Driver many years ago ... this
is an oldie, but a goodie (and fortunately, still online):

<http://www.caranddriver.com/features/archive/winter-
traction_test_what_price_traction_-feature>


As another poster mentioned earlier, the only real advantage of AWD is
to get your car moving ... but from there, everyone needs to be able
to stop...which one is the higher priority at that instant you want
it? While my wife's Audi is no longer a Quattro, it still runs a
full set of four snows (as it did when it was a Quattro), as does my
daily driver as well. In both cases, we've put on as small/narrow of
a rim as we can fit over the brakes...and most importantly of all,
when the weather is bad, we choose to not risk fates and stay at
home. Afterall, it isn't the end of the world if we run out of eggs,
milk or bread for a day or two.


-hh

 

[1 Lucky Texan]

Of course what that does to the car handling is entirely dependent on
the car in question. With subaru so unwilling to rotate it's not as
much
an issue but as car and driver had recently found out going taller
does make a lot of difference on a properly balanced machine such as
lancer ralliart
with the car becoming much more prone to oversteer at freeway speeds
with 60+ tall sidewalls
on winter tires.

Going down 1" is probably not as bad but there are no reports pouring
in yet
that i'm aware of.

"If" the upcoming Toyaburu FT-85 has the proper power split between
the axles
I'd be very hesitant to go down from 18" to 16" winter rims for that
exact reason.

Being a conservative old fart i'd probably stay on nothing lesser 17"s
for winter even on
cars that are very hard to rotate such as STI.

As for saving a buck or two on a winter set: no matter how many driven
wheels you
have the brake distance goes to infinity (pun intended) as the
temperature drops
snow/ice or not. If you get no ice/snow but temps drop below 40F just
forfeit the studs,
but softer compound is a must to stay out of ditches and the bumpers
of cars in front.
(In a best rendition of a homer simpson voice) umm, snow slicks...


Of course they are not required if you are an aspiring rally driver
and want to test the limits
of the car on every low temp day.

The winter set pays off on the first day when you avoid kissing the
bumper in front.
Unless you are living in one of those "no fault" states that is.

Last I heard, the Toybaru is RWD.

 

[clare]

Of course what that does to the car handling is entirely dependent on
the car in question. With subaru so unwilling to rotate it's not as
much
an issue but as car and driver had recently found out going taller
does make a lot of difference on a properly balanced machine such as
lancer ralliart
with the car becoming much more prone to oversteer at freeway speeds
with 60+ tall sidewalls
on winter tires.

Going down 1" is probably not as bad but there are no reports pouring
in yet
that i'm aware of.

"If" the upcoming Toyaburu FT-85 has the proper power split between
the axles
I'd be very hesitant to go down from 18" to 16" winter rims for that
exact reason.

Being a conservative old fart i'd probably stay on nothing lesser 17"s
for winter even on
cars that are very hard to rotate such as STI.

As for saving a buck or two on a winter set: no matter how many driven
wheels you
have the brake distance goes to infinity (pun intended) as the
temperature drops
snow/ice or not. If you get no ice/snow but temps drop below 40F just
forfeit the studs,
but softer compound is a must to stay out of ditches and the bumpers
of cars in front.
(In a best rendition of a homer simpson voice) umm, snow slicks...


Of course they are not required if you are an aspiring rally driver
and want to test the limits
of the car on every low temp day.

I think you meant to say "unless" you are an aspiring rallye driver.
And even then "overpriced" tires are not required. There are decent
snow tires available that are not "overpriced" - particularly if you
are willing and able to go to a higher profile tire on a smaller
diameter rim. As for the handling, you will not develop enough lateral
traction for the sidewall height to be a handling issue with winter
tires under anything approaching sane winter driving conditions.

I am not an aspiring rallye driver - I am a retired rallye driver.

The winter set pays off on the first day when you avoid kissing the
bumper in front.
Unless you are living in one of those "no fault" states that is.

And I totally agree with you, snow tires are pretty well a NECESSITY,
not an option in snow country.

 

[clare]

The key element is the concept of "Right Tool For The Job", and what
most people don't realize about the question of All-Seasons vs. Snows
is that it isn't just tread pattern - - it is also the rubber
compound. The most graphic examples of this can be found when one
takes a high performance summer tire out on a dry, clear but very cold
(20F) winter morning: over 75% of the tire's grip will be gone.

With the advent of AWD, the question has evolved into "AWD or
Snows?". Obviously, the *best* answer is actually "Both!". But for
someone demanding an exclusive or (XOR logic), the answer is that
Snows are better than AWD, roughly 80% of the time.

This was as per testing done by Car & Driver many years ago ... this
is an oldie, but a goodie (and fortunately, still online):

All "all wheel drive" does is get you farther from help.

 

[AD]

I think you meant to say "unless" you are an aspiring rallye driver.
And even then "overpriced" tires are not required. There are decent

Ok, lets change the angle then: after having RE92 pushed down out
throats for ages we know how an overpriced
all season tire looks and smells like. Would you show an example of an
overpriced winter tire - i'm yet
to find garbage to match RE92 all season.

I somewhat agree on the winter tall sidewalls being not much of an
issue.