Converting from belt-driven fan to electric fan

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

I want to convert my Subaru Hatch (1989 GL 3-door) from a belt driven fan
to an electric fan, in order to help it warm up faster in the cold weather
we have been having lately. I also believe that it may save a couple MPG
(the car gets <>21=>28 MPG depending on road speed and whether I have to
use 4WD).

I can get a fan for a Paseo pretty cheap, but will have to add a themostat
and all the wiring. All in all, it looks like I can do this for <$50.

Any ideas?

Oh, and out of all the cars I have, this is the only car (other than my
Scion) that the A/C actually WORKS! And it's the only car that won't be on
the road in the summer! Figures, eh?

 

[Jeff]

I want to convert my Subaru Hatch (1989 GL 3-door) from a belt driven fan
to an electric fan, in order to help it warm up faster in the cold weather
we have been having lately.

I don't think it will make that much of a difference. As long as the
thermostat is closed, there won't be coolant going through the radiator,
so it won't matter if air is moving through or not.

I also believe that it may save a couple MPG
(the car gets <>21=>28 MPG depending on road speed and whether I have to
use 4WD).

I would think in the neighborhood of 0.1 mpg. If you are concerned about
MPG, try making sure that there is enough air in the tires.

I can get a fan for a Paseo pretty cheap, but will have to add a themostat
and all the wiring. All in all, it looks like I can do this for <$50.

Any ideas?

Forget it, except make sure there is enough air in the tires, don't
drive like a rabbit, and have a great day.

Jeff

 

[Ray O]

I want to convert my Subaru Hatch (1989 GL 3-door) from a belt driven fan
to an electric fan, in order to help it warm up faster in the cold weather
we have been having lately. I also believe that it may save a couple MPG
(the car gets <>21=>28 MPG depending on road speed and whether I have to
use 4WD).

I don't think an electric fan will make much of a difference in warm up
speed. The belt-driven fan has a clutch that is disengaged when it is cold,
so while it may be free-wheeling, it shouldn't be sucking signficant air
through the radiator.

I can get a fan for a Paseo pretty cheap, but will have to add a themostat
and all the wiring. All in all, it looks like I can do this for <$50.

Any ideas?

Oh, and out of all the cars I have, this is the only car (other than my
Scion) that the A/C actually WORKS! And it's the only car that won't be on
the road in the summer! Figures, eh?

Adding the electric fan should be easy if you can fabricate some kind of
bracket for the fan, The hard part will be adding a coolant temperature
switch somewhere. You will have to drill and tap an opening in the radiator
side (not the part of the engine where the coolant circulates when the
thermostat is closed) of the cooling system to mount the coolant temperature
switch. There may be room in the thermostat housing, but before you go and
potentially ruin the existing housing, I would get another one to modify and
keep the original in case your modification doesn't work properly. Your
other option would be to get a cast aluminum sleeve in the radiator hose and
mount the switch in the sleeve, or mount a switch somewhere inside the car
that you can operate manually.

You will also have to wire a relay into the system between the switch and
the fan since the switch probably won't handle the current from the fan.

 

[Ph@Boy]

I want to convert my Subaru Hatch (1989 GL 3-door) from a belt driven fan
to an electric fan, in order to help it warm up faster in the cold weather
we have been having lately. I also believe that it may save a couple MPG
(the car gets <>21=>28 MPG depending on road speed and whether I have to
use 4WD).

I can get a fan for a Paseo pretty cheap, but will have to add a themostat
and all the wiring. All in all, it looks like I can do this for <$50.

Any ideas?

Oh, and out of all the cars I have, this is the only car (other than my
Scion) that the A/C actually WORKS! And it's the only car that won't be on
the road in the summer! Figures, eh?

All that Ray and Jeff mentioned and in addition, to purchase all that's
needed to change the system over, plus the cost of your time and effort,
it may be a long time before you find it was cost effective on an almost
twenty year old vehicle. IMHO, save your money and effort.

 

[Tim B]

I want to convert my Subaru Hatch (1989 GL 3-door) from a belt driven fan
to an electric fan, in order to help it warm up faster in the cold weather
we have been having lately. I also believe that it may save a couple MPG
(the car gets <>21=>28 MPG depending on road speed and whether I have to
use 4WD).

Just stick a piece of cardboard in front of the rad, covering about 2/3 of
it. Probably won't help much with mileage, but should help warm it up
faster.

 

[Ed White]

I want to convert my Subaru Hatch (1989 GL 3-door) from a belt driven fan
to an electric fan, in order to help it warm up faster in the cold weather
we have been having lately. I also believe that it may save a couple MPG
(the car gets <>21=>28 MPG depending on road speed and whether I have to
use 4WD).

I can get a fan for a Paseo pretty cheap, but will have to add a themostat
and all the wiring. All in all, it looks like I can do this for <$50.

Any ideas?

Oh, and out of all the cars I have, this is the only car (other than my
Scion) that the A/C actually WORKS! And it's the only car that won't be on
the road in the summer! Figures, eh?

I doubt you will see much of an improvement in either the warm-up time, or
the fuel economy. Once the car is moving, the fan is almost a non-factor.
And when the car is cold, the thermostat should prevent water from
circulating through radiator.

If you decide to go ahead with the conversion, you will also need to add a
switch to turn on the fan in response to the needs of the A/C. My modern
cars with electric fans and A/C all have high side switches that turn on the
electric cooling fan when the A/C high side pressure goes up to some level.
An older Audi I owned, just turned on the electric cooling fan anytime the
A/C compressor was engaged.

Ed

 

[Hachiroku]

I don't think an electric fan will make much of a difference in warm up
speed. The belt-driven fan has a clutch that is disengaged when it is
cold, so while it may be free-wheeling, it shouldn't be sucking signficant
air through the radiator.
Adding the electric fan should be easy if you can fabricate some kind of
bracket for the fan, The hard part will be adding a coolant temperature
switch somewhere. You will have to drill and tap an opening in the
radiator side (not the part of the engine where the coolant circulates
when the thermostat is closed) of the cooling system to mount the coolant
temperature switch. There may be room in the thermostat housing, but
before you go and potentially ruin the existing housing, I would get
another one to modify and keep the original in case your modification
doesn't work properly. Your other option would be to get a cast aluminum
sleeve in the radiator hose and mount the switch in the sleeve, or mount a
switch somewhere inside the car that you can operate manually.

You will also have to wire a relay into the system between the switch and
the fan since the switch probably won't handle the current from the fan.

Ray, Ray, Ray! I think these things out beforehand!

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_758607_-1_11471

 

[Ray O]

Ray, Ray, Ray! I think these things out beforehand!

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_758607_-1_11471

OK, that covers the part about the relay, but you still have to figure out
where and how to mount the sensor. They show what looks like a sleeve to
hold the sensor, but the hole has to be drilled and the sleeve installed
somehow.

 

[EdV]

I want to convert my Subaru Hatch (1989 GL 3-door) from a belt driven fan
to an electric fan, in order to help it warm up faster in the cold weather
we have been having lately. I also believe that it may save a couple MPG
(the car gets <>21=>28 MPG depending on road speed and whether I have to
use 4WD).

I can get a fan for a Paseo pretty cheap, but will have to add a themostat
and all the wiring. All in all, it looks like I can do this for <$50.

Any ideas?

Oh, and out of all the cars I have, this is the only car (other than my
Scion) that the A/C actually WORKS! And it's the only car that won't be on
the road in the summer! Figures, eh?

My sister has those electric engine block heaters that you plugin to a
wall socket when she parks the car during cold Canadian winters. I
haven't seen in personally, but she tells me it works fine.

 

[Steve B.]

I also don't think you will see much of an improvement. The
thermostat should be closed when the engine is cold and then it will
modulate to control coolant flow to keep the engine at temperature
once it warms up. It doesn't matter how much air is going through the
radiator on a cold engine since the water is only moving through the
heater core until the thermostat opens.

You also have a clutch on the fan that is temp sensitive. When you
first start it up the fan may roar a bit until the fluid in that
clutch warms up (a minute or so) but past that point the fan isn't
doing much.

If it were mine I would leave it alone. It has worked fine the way
the factory designed it for close to 20 years... Make sure it is in
good tune and drive like there is an egg between your foot and the
accelerator pedal and you will save much more fuel.

Steve B.

 

[ChrisCoaster]

 Make sure it is in
good tune and drive like there is an egg between your foot and the
accelerator pedal and you will save much more fuel.

            Steve B.

_______________________

About that last suggestion, Steve: We are joined at the hip with that
statement. But how can one drive like there is an egg on the
accelerator without having the vehicle behind you end up in your back
seat?

I live in Fairfield County and believe me, when the light turns green,
even on an old two-laner, the roar of cars leaving the line resembles
several 747s spooling up for takeoff at once! The floor-pan beneath
their gas pedals must have an extra indentation from how often that
pedal's been FLOORED!

I've also been watching my tachometer more on takeoffs - not allowing
it to rev above 2000-2500 before letting up on the gas and letting the
ole' automatic downshift. Accelerating through lower gears is a LOT
quieter than pressing the pedal almost all the way down and not
letting until the car is at the speed limit. It's just that most
drivers behind me don't have the patience for my fuel-saving ways.

-CC

 

[Jeff Strickland]

Make sure it is in
good tune and drive like there is an egg between your foot and the
accelerator pedal and you will save much more fuel.

Steve B.

_______________________

About that last suggestion, Steve: We are joined at the hip with that
statement. But how can one drive like there is an egg on the
accelerator without having the vehicle behind you end up in your back
seat?




When the drivers of those cars start paying for your gas, then you can drive
like they do. Until then, drive as you want.

I'm not suggesting you do 15 in a 45, I'm suggesting that your rate of
acceleration from 0 to 45 should be what you want it to be, not what the guy
behind wants it to be.

 

[Tomes]

_______________________

About that last suggestion, Steve: We are joined at the hip with that
statement. But how can one drive like there is an egg on the
accelerator without having the vehicle behind you end up in your back
seat?

When the drivers of those cars start paying for your gas, then you can
drive like they do. Until then, drive as you want.

I'm not suggesting you do 15 in a 45, I'm suggesting that your rate of
acceleration from 0 to 45 should be what you want it to be, not what the
guy behind wants it to be.

Tomes
(back from the Usenet dead)

 

[Tomes]

"ChrisCoaster" <(e-mail address removed)>
wrote (e-mail address removed)...

Make sure it is in
good tune and drive like there is an egg between your foot and the
accelerator pedal and you will save much more fuel.

Steve B.

_______________________

About that last suggestion, Steve: We are joined at the hip with that
statement. But how can one drive like there is an egg on the
accelerator without having the vehicle behind you end up in your back
seat?

I live in Fairfield County and believe me, when the light turns green,
even on an old two-laner, the roar of cars leaving the line resembles
several 747s spooling up for takeoff at once! The floor-pan beneath
their gas pedals must have an extra indentation from how often that
pedal's been FLOORED!

I've also been watching my tachometer more on takeoffs - not allowing
it to rev above 2000-2500 before letting up on the gas and letting the
ole' automatic downshift. Accelerating through lower gears is a LOT
quieter than pressing the pedal almost all the way down and not
letting until the car is at the speed limit. It's just that most
drivers behind me don't have the patience for my fuel-saving ways.

-CC
_______________________________

It is a paradigm thing. Until folks get used to changing the ways that they
have driven for all these years with cheap gas, they will continue to be
annoyed by folks that drive with less lead-footedness. Eventually they will
change with the rest or they will continue to be annoyed (not my problem)
and continue to lose money on gas.
Tomes
(back from the Usenet dead)

 

[AZ Nomad]

If it were mine I would leave it alone. It has worked fine the way
the factory designed it for close to 20 years... Make sure it is in
good tune and drive like there is an egg between your foot and the
accelerator pedal and you will save much more fuel.

The faster you get into top gear and the longer you stay in top gear, the
better the economy. Even a jackrabbit takeoff is preferable to taking three
minutes to get up to speed. Maintain a decent following distance to reduce
the need for braking.

 

[Bruce L. Bergman]

I want to convert my Subaru Hatch (1989 GL 3-door) from a belt driven fan
to an electric fan, in order to help it warm up faster in the cold weather
we have been having lately. I also believe that it may save a couple MPG
(the car gets <>21=>28 MPG depending on road speed and whether I have to
use 4WD).

I can get a fan for a Paseo pretty cheap, but will have to add a themostat
and all the wiring. All in all, it looks like I can do this for <$50.

Any ideas?

Oh, and out of all the cars I have, this is the only car (other than my
Scion) that the A/C actually WORKS! And it's the only car that won't be on
the road in the summer! Figures, eh?

Hachi, practice KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid! It works perfectly
fine as it is, leave it alone. The belt driven fan with thermostatic
clutch is simple, effective and efficient, you are adding many more
failure points for a very dubious return.

If you want it to warm up faster, shroud off the radiator opening in
the grille to cut down the road draft through the radiator - look at
the big Naugahyde covers (or the air-actuated shutters behind the
grille) that truckers have used for many decades.

--<< Bruce >>--

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

Ray, Ray, Ray! I think these things out beforehand!

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_758607_-1_11471

Why so much $$$ for that stuff? You may never recover your costs in
fuel savings if you spend that much.

Here's how I'd do it: Either get a thermostatic switch from an old
drip coffee maker or microwave oven (check ratings because they
trigger at anywhere from 140-212F), or use a thermistor (electronic
parts supplies, dud battery packs from cordless tools). BTW any
relay from a microwave oven probably can't carry the current needed by
a fan because AC amp ratings for relay contacts are equivalent to less
than 25-50% the DC ratings.

You'll probably have to build an electronic controller consisting of
at least a transistor and diode to drive the relay coil (wire diode
across coil to keep it from destroying the transistor). A
thermostatic switch can be wired almost directly to the driver
transistor, but a thermistor needs a comparator circuit to set the
trigger temperatures, plural because there's one temp. for turning on
the fan, another, lower, temp to turn it off. That also means hooking
up the comparator (think LM339, which is four comparators in one
package) as a Schmitt trigger. You'll also need to find the relay
that turns on the A/C compressor and use its signal to turn on the fan
whenever the compressor runs.

 

[nobody >]

Hachi, practice KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid! It works perfectly
fine as it is, leave it alone. The belt driven fan with thermostatic
clutch is simple, effective and efficient, you are adding many more
failure points for a very dubious return.

If you want it to warm up faster, shroud off the radiator opening in
the grille to cut down the road draft through the radiator - look at
the big Naugahyde covers (or the air-actuated shutters behind the
grille) that truckers have used for many decades.

--<< Bruce >>--

Something as simple as a paper bag partially covering the radiator works
well.

Back in Montana, we called that the "Safeway Thermostat", and it does
work when the temperature has a (-) in front of it.

 

[4Q2]

All the work has already been done. There is already a temp sensor and
relay. They are used to pull the existing fan clutch on at already
determined sensor settings. All that really needs to be done is mount the
fan and splice in to the existing connector that you removed from the
existing electric clutch. Bobs yer aunty

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

My sister has those electric engine block heaters that you plugin to a
wall socket when she parks the car during cold Canadian winters. I haven't
seen in personally, but she tells me it works fine.

Yeah, I was thinking about one of these, too. There are a couple (a few?)
types; one that replaces the dipstick, one that installs as a metal sleeve
in the radiator hose, and another that replaces a feeze plug. Which one?
Which one???