Buying Used Outback - Advice appreciated

[Dan]

I rolled my 1998 Outback limited wagon last week; it had 200k, and was
the best vehicle I've ever owned. I walked away with only a few bruises
and a jammed left shoulder, you just can't say enough good things about
these cars. Anyway I need to replace it, and so -

I can't afford a new one now, so I'm looking at used. I've found a 2001
LL Bean ("excellent condition") w/ 52,000 miles from a private party
for $14,500, and a 2002 base + a few options w/ 39,394 miles; the
dealer quoted $16,850 "internet price". I've also considered a couple
of 2002 w/ 57,000 - 65,000 mile for around $13,000 internet price, and
a 2001 base + options w/ 77,771 miles at an internet price of $10,995.
Any thoughts on these prices for these vehicles? They seem a little
high to me, but I'm not sure since I haven't looked for a vehicle since
1999. I have checked out Edmunds, NADA, and KBB, but I was hoping to
get input from knowledgeable folk.

Also, does anyone have any input on potential problems with any of the
models, especially the 2001 LL Bean? I've seen here that some folks
have had some problems, but Subarus seem to be so dependable in my
experience that I wonder about that.

Any advice or comments anyone would offer would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks to you in advance!

Dan

 

[BobN]

That price seems a little steep for a 5-year old Outback. Another good way
to check the market is by reviewing completed Ebay auctions - those are real
deals, not just book figures.

 

[Dan]

Thanks BobN, will do that.

 

[Dan]

cHECKED OUT e-bAY. Seems kind of crazy there. Performed Linear
Regression on 85 data points that are probably dealer biased. So...

 

[bigjim]

Please dont be a momo and pay $16000 for a USED car. You can get a new
outback for about $21k.

 

[Bradley Walker]

Dan,

I'm solidily with you in believing Outbacks are some of the best cars you
can have. I can't say enough about my mom's `95 Legacy L as it approaches
285,000 miles and is running like a charm. I myself just purchased a 2001
Limited Edition 5spd Outback Wagon last month for $10,900 after it's
'sticker' price at the dealers lot was $16,000. Their internet price was
still a high $13,300 with them screaming bloody murder when I offered
$12,000 for it. Between waiting, finding the weakest salesman, and really
doing alot of BSing about a dealership the next city over, I got it for
$10,900 which I firmly believed was the right price. Also I followed alot
of the advice on this newsgroup. I checked edmunds, kbb, but most
importantly looked at comparable prices on eBay of which I was armed and
ready to use at the dealer to show that the ebay prices are the "Deals", not
the sticker prices that someone is wanting to pay a salesman's commission.

My car was purchased at 78,000 miles, (I've got 80,000 now) and was kept in
excellent condition by the previous owner. If you are looking at the LL
Bean from the same model year as mine, I personally wouldn't go more than
$12,000. The LL Bean Edition doesn't have much more than what the Limited
Edition has (mine has dual sunroofs, cd player, all leather, heated seats,
etc) so there really isn't any reason to pay that much more, except it does
have a bit lower mileage. As someone else wrote on here, the $16,850 price
for the 2002 Outback is severely overpriced. Especially if it's just a
standard non-limited, non-VDC, non-LLBean Outback. Way overpriced. Even if
that 2002 was an LL Bean I still wouldn't consider more than $13,000-$14,000
tops for that.

 

[Dan]

Brad,

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it very much. I am totally sold on
the Subarus, especially after I walked away unhurt from my accident.
The wrecker driver said he thought there was a fatality when he
arrived.

I offered the dealer $12,250 for the 2002 OB, which might still be
high, and they responded with an offer of $15,850. I thanked them for
their time and politely told them I could do better at several other
places, and basically told them good-bye and good luck. That car has
been on their lot since last July!

Personally the only thing about an LL Bean I like is the H6, but the H4
has always been fine for me; I work mostly in the mountains. I don't
need the sun roof and like the extra headroom in a base or limited. I
also don't care much for the limited, but would prefer a base with
the weather package plus a CD player, and the towing package would be
nice too. I do a lot of field work in streams and wetlands, so the
leather in the limited isn't something that I need.

From what you told me about your purchase, it sounds like the 2001 with

77,770 miles for $10,995 is a fair price (without having seen the
vehicle in person). It has the weather package, towing package, CD,
etc, and is a South Carolina car - so no road salt issues.

Thanks again!

Dan

 

[Dan]

Big Backpacker -

No intentions of paying 16k for a used OB. I'm a grad student in my
last year, that's why I'm looking used. If I could afford a new one I
doubt I'd be here looking for advice. And what the heck is a momo?

 

[Bradley Walker]

Dan,

You might really want to keep the 2002 OB in mind, especially if they are
having a hard time getting rid of it. I ran into the exact same situation
with mine. It was on a dealers lot since mid-late November. I went in the
first of December, made my offer in the 12's, they balked at it as if I was
stupid. I followed the salesman into an office, hassled him with "so you
are fine with loosing money on this vehicle by leaving it set?" and got him
thrown off his scripted routines. That day resulted with the salesman being
very aggitated with me and never talking to me again (yay). As I was
leaving I was told how my offer was so far below acceptable it wasn't funny
and that the vehicle was such a hot item that it'd be gone in a few days
anyway.

Well it sat and sat until Dec. 31 when I went in, made up a BS offer from
another dealership that I was being offered, this time with a different
salesman. Being that the vehicle had sat for well over a month and half
which is eternity at this larger dealership, they were very apt to deal with
me. You may have to do it 2-3 times going back in for the 2002 OB, but
don't hesitate to hit them with guilt tripping like statements that they are
loosing money, that their salesmen can't appearantly sell a reliable car,
that you'll find the newbie car salesman and get him to sell it to you
cheaply just so he gets a sale, etc. Those are all good techniques to use
with different salesmen as the situation arises. Your offer of $12,250
seems very much in line with the 2002 OB LLBean and it's mileage. I
wouldn't make this dealership your prime target, but don't be afraid to
swing by, remind them of their lack of sales on that car and that they must
love losing money.

The 2001 vehicle is very much a nearly identical vehicle as mine. Including
the weather package, additional head and leg room (helps for me that I'm
6'5") , and everything else except towing. Not that I would ever use that
to begin with. The one thing I'm also a firm believer in with mileage,
Subaru's seem to be better than the rest. In that I mean a Subaru may have
70,000+ mileage on it, but thats like saying a Chevy Impala only has 30,000
miles on it. After seeing my mom's `95 almost hit 300,000 (it will this
summer) then I have no qualms of purchasing a Subaru which appears at first
to have a bit higher mileage.

Brad

 

[Bradley Walker]

Just ignore some of the people on this forum. They like to name call others
without attempting to understand your specific situation. Heck when I wrote
on here about buying my car, I got reamed a few times by several folks who
said I was stupid for not buying new just to get the full warranty. Lest
they forget, not everyone has a cool $25,000 cash in pocket to blow at a
whim when something used will work perfectly for years to come.

 

[Guest]

Also, does anyone have any input on potential problems with any of the
models, especially the 2001 LL Bean? I've seen here that some folks
have had some problems, but Subarus seem to be so dependable in my
experience that I wonder about that.

Any advice or comments anyone would offer would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks to you in advance!

They likely have that inferior door design of several Surbaru models,
with no upper door frame to hold the window secure.

 

[bigjim]

A momo is an idiot who pays nearly the cost of a new car for a used
one. Remember, a used car is just that. You dont know he maintenance or
any issues that plagued this car from the get go. Most people keep
Subarus for over 100k miles so those with lower miles must have a
reason for their being on sale. I'm sorry- paying 4k more over four or
five years is no big deal to get a brand new car. Used cars are for
suckers IMOas that is where dealers really make their money.

 

[Bugalugs]

Dan,

anyway.

Well it sat and sat until Dec. 31 when I went in, made up a BS offer from
another dealership that I was being offered, this time with a different
salesman. Being that the vehicle had sat for well over a month and half
which is eternity at this larger dealership, they were very apt to deal with
me. You may have to do it 2-3 times going back in for the 2002 OB, but
don't hesitate to hit them with guilt tripping like statements that they are
loosing money, that their salesmen can't appearantly sell a reliable car,
that you'll find the newbie car salesman and get him to sell it to you
cheaply just so he gets a sale, etc. Those are all good techniques to use
with different salesmen as the situation arises. Your offer of $12,250
seems very much in line with the 2002 OB LLBean and it's mileage. I
wouldn't make this dealership your prime target, but don't be afraid to
swing by, remind them of their lack of sales on that car and that they must
love losing money.

Call in again 28th Feb, don't budge on price offered and if no joy then,
call back 31st march and offer less.

 

[Justin Kozuch]

Used cars are for suckers IMOas that is where dealers really make their money.

Really? I guess I'm a sucker for getting a used 2000 Outback, huh?

Some of us don't boatloads of money burning holes in our pockets, so
sometimes, a used vehicle has to do. How many teenagers do you know
that buy a car new (using Mommy or Daddy's money doesn't count)?

Yeah, exactly. None.

 

[bigjim]

Teenagers dont count- my 1st car was a '73 Torino for $700 back in '84.
Adults with careers howevers are making bad choices when paying $15k +
for a friggin used car. Good dealing techniques can get many new cars
for ~$20k

 

[Dan]

I guess if you read a little more closely you'd find: 1) I'm not about
to 15k for a used vehicle; 2) I'm a grad student - I don't know too
many that can afford 20k for something new - it's hard enough to hustle
enough grant money to pay tuition, fund the work, etc. I'm just looking
for advice on used Subarus, because that's all I can afford presently.

Brad, thanks very much for your input on your latest Subaru purchase. I
am going to look at the 2001 on Monday. I've talked the dealer down to
$9800 on the telephone. I'll try to get him down further on Monday, but
this seems like a pretty fair price as it is. If the car is in good
condition I'll probably buy it Monday. I'd like to look around a little
more, but my field season is starting and I need to have
transportation.

Thanks also to the rest of you (n-1) for your comments. I appreciate it
very much.

Dan

 

[bigjim]

I'd still pay ~13k for a new hunday elantra gt before I'd pay 10k on a
used subaru

 

[Bugalugs]

I'd still pay ~13k for a new hunday elantra gt before I'd pay 10k on a
used subaru

Well you just go right on and do that.....but this guy wants to buy a
Subaru.

 

[bigjim]

Well you just go right on and do that.....but this guy wants to buy a
Subaru<<

I'd be leery of buying a 5 year old subaru with 80k miles- here's why.
I loved my 04 OBW I bought new for a while. Now at two years old with
64k miles the suspunsion is loose and sloppy . I had a front strut blow
and be replaced already. I'll have it checked when I take it in for 90k
service and see if I can get any thing replaced under extended
warranty. Mechanically its fine but I'm not sure if this will be a
"keeper". When the toyota FJ cruiser comes out or a 4 door wrangler I
think I'll lose the outback.

 

[bigjim]

Well you just go right on and do that.....but this guy wants to buy a
Subaru<<

I'd be leery of buying a 5 year old subaru with 80k miles- here's why.
I loved my 04 OBW I bought new for a while. Now at two years old with
64k miles the suspunsion is loose and sloppy . I had a front strut blow
and be replaced already. I'll have it checked when I take it in for 90k
service and see if I can get any thing replaced under extended
warranty. Mechanically its fine but I'm not sure if this will be a
"keeper". When the toyota FJ cruiser comes out or a 4 door wrangler I
think I'll lose the outback.