break-in period

[David Buchner]

Did you ever hear that old glass windows sag and are
thicker at the bottom? Did you know that is not true?

Wow. Really? I could swear I had a high school physics teacher tell me
that one.

 

[David Buchner]

Ignore this persons advice. He knows nothing about cars. Perhaps thats why
he's here?

I don't know that he was actually giving advice. He was just being
skeptical.

 

[dg]

You probably remember correctly, but your teacher was mistaken. Here is a
link (one of MANY, do a google search) that explains it:

http://www.glassnotes.com/WindowPanes.html

I too was surprised, but the above seems to be the truth. At least one
major glass manufacturer has an FAQ that lists this topic, but I couldn't
find it-I thought it was corning but their page doesn't seem to have the FAQ
I remember.

--Dan

 

[dg]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

--Dan

I don't know that he was actually giving advice. He was just being
skeptical.

 

[y_p_w]

Wow. This is very interesting, and something I've always wondered about.
The piece of information I'm missing to fully understand is: what's
different about the oil that's in there that you're not changing for
1,000 miles? Is it actually less-slippery oil that permits "a given
amount of friction"?

There have often been theories, and perhaps different manufacturers
use different oils. The basic theories are single weight oil,
extra additives, or a combination therof.

There isn't that much specific information on break-in oil on the
web. However - ere are a few I found through a search engine:

John Deere actually sells a break-in oil to top off for new engines
or use in rebuilt engines for 100 hours (I guess most tractor/
equipment operators keep logs):
<http://www.frontierequip.com/service/breakinoil.htm>
<http://erbequipment.com/partsservice/FAQ.htm>
<http://www.deere.com/jdin/en_GB/shared/parts/parts_accessories/ag_lube.html?sidenavstate=10000>

Chevron sells an "uncompounded" SAE 60 oil for uses as a break-in
oil in aircraft engines. It sounds like break-in oil is very
common in aircraft engines, although it's fairly well-known that
aircraft engine tolerances aren't as high. They tend to go with
older, proven technology.

<http://library.cbest.chevron.com/lubes/compprd9.nsf/0/61fa2f75572968a488255f7f00120db2?OpenDocument>

Features

Chevron Aero Engine Oils Uncompounded do not
contain ashless dispersant additives that retard the
formation of sludge.

Applications

Chevron Aero Engine Oils Uncompounded are the type of oil
recommended by most engine manufacturers and engine rebuilders
for use as a break-in oil for new, rebuilt or overhauled
fourstroke cycle aircraft piston engines. Check with the
engine manufacturer or overhaul facility for their specific
recommendation.

 

[Matt F]

Various and frequent engine speed changes are neccessary to seat the rings

properly. Yes, it takes that long to properly break in your car. Take it
for a short road trip on a crappy highway with lots of construction. That
way your speed will change frequently. You are in a bad spot if you have to
drive it to your home directly after purchase. I suspect your car wont last
long. And of course keep it under 4k. What are you trying to do, go
against every recomendation the manufacturer has?


Rob

Well, three of the guys at the dealership seemed to encourage me to do so,
so I took their advice, after really grilling them and making sure they knew
their shit. At any rate, I am back home now, I have put 1400 miles on the
car, and I did my best. I varied the engine speed every 50 miles or so
during the trip. But I also was unable to hold off on seeing what kind of
power the car had before the 1000 mile mark. In other words, yes, I had
some fun with it right away, but not excessively.

I suspect the car will be fine. It's 2004, after all, and I highly doubt a
not-strictly-by-the-manufacturer break-in routine will spell doom for this
machine.

At any rate, your doom-prediction does have me curious....would it be worth
it to have someone take apart the engine and inspect the rings and cylinders
to see how they look?

Matt

 

[Edward Hayes]

I think your engine will have a very long and good life based on what you
shared. eddie

 

[Rob Duncan]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

--Dan

To be fair... I shouldnt have responded in the way I had. Sorry. Break in
procedures are well thought out and not without reason though. Always
follow break in procedures.


Rob

 

[Rob Duncan]

have

I should note here... I was trying to be pleasently sarcastic in my last
sentence. I can see I failed remarkably. ;^)

Well, three of the guys at the dealership seemed to encourage me to do so,
so I took their advice, after really grilling them and making sure they knew
their shit. At any rate, I am back home now, I have put 1400 miles on the
car, and I did my best. I varied the engine speed every 50 miles or so
during the trip.

Truthfully? Thats too infrequent.

But I also was unable to hold off on seeing what kind of
power the car had before the 1000 mile mark. In other words, yes, I had
some fun with it right away, but not excessively.

That might not be so bad. I wouldnt worry about that part.

I suspect the car will be fine. It's 2004, after all, and I highly doubt a
not-strictly-by-the-manufacturer break-in routine will spell doom for this
machine.

At any rate, your doom-prediction does have me curious....would it be worth
it to have someone take apart the engine and inspect the rings and cylinders
to see how they look?

Matt

Nah. I wouldnt worry about it. Honestly I think we vary our speeds while
driving a lot more than we realize. Is yours an automatic? Stick? The
rings arent exactly metal on metal as one poster mentioned. Although when
under differing pressures, such as in accelerating or decelerating, the
*high* points are rubbed off. Different cylinder angles occur under
different loads. This all needs to be taken into account. The
cylinder/pistons are seperated by a film of oil, as you probably know. No
rubbing occurs between the two. Just the high points of contact are rubbed
or polished off. But the rings also need to be seated... and that requires
differing engine loads as well. You dont want your rings twirling circles
forever.

What I would do, even now, is when you first get in your car to go somewhere
use the rpm band. Be generous. Overly so. After its warmed up I wouldnt
worry about it. Just my .02


Rob

 

[Rob Duncan]

I don't know, but I wouldn't make any assumptions based on the marketing
used in snake oil remedies. Maybe they don't want to be blamed if a
defective part in a brand new engine breaks. There could be tons of
reasons, many having nothing to do with engine break in at all.



I said nothing to indicate that cars should have no redline, I was just
saying that we are in fact talking about an engine with burning gasoline and
hot metal. The difference between 3500rpm and 5000rpm ain't much-I mean
they claim 3500 is OK, so what is going to happen at 5k that isn't going to
happen at 3.5k? Fire and hot metal, remember, you are already doing it.. I
would be interested in hearing about high mileage engine differences between
drivers shifting at 3500 or 5000 on a large number of identical vehicles run
under similar terrain and all maintained properly. What the hell, lets even
"break" some in by also driving them on cruise control at 90 for at least
the first week of driving-as little variation as possible. That'd be the
clincher that could make or break the break in theory-the high mileage
comparisons.


Uhh, no, I have done no research. In fact, I clearly state that I wish
somebody would do some good documented tests on the subject. As far as I
know, there haven't been any documented experiments that would say anything
either way.


If I pray to a god that I win the lotto and then I win, does that make me
correct if I go around telling people that my god is real? If their engine
runs good and they have an excuse, is it always correct? In all of the
engine break-in writings I have seen, not one includes and cites of actual
data. All are the same regurgitated information that has been passed around
garages for decades. Did you ever hear that old glass windows sag and are
thicker at the bottom? Did you know that is not true? I have had old
timers argue with me over that too, and even though they are old and have
lived and had more experience-they were told incorrect information and even
though they want to believe it-its wrong. The engine break in theory is
something people WANT to believe-*it may even be true*-but I have not seen
any data to back it up, so to me it smells fishy. Its theory.


Not hard to prove? How do you figure? Its like those TV commercials that
show a scan of a human brain from a chronic user of Ecstasy and then show a
scan of a human brain from somebody who never used drugs. The brain
activity is MUCH smaller looking on the scan for the chronic ecstasy user.
So to twist the facts against ecstasy, they say that the ecstasy causes your
brain to stop functioning correctly-less activity. But after thinking about
it, their argument has no leg to stand on. You see, a chronic ecstasy user
is somebody who hangs out in clubs dancing all night. They are
malnourished, dehydrated, and mentally stressed. They may sleep only
several hours per week. They often use other drugs and alcohol and
generally lead a poor lifestyle. So, lets take that person who never used
drugs before and lets put them in a club all night dancing several days a
week and not feed them properly and let them get very dehydrated. Lets
maybe let them get an hour of sleep and then wake them and make then go flip
burgers for 8 hours. But maybe only feed them a bite or two cause the
chronic ecstasy user probably isn't eating too much either. Lets carry this
on for at least a few months--and then scan the brain again. Its like
engine break in, damn hard to prove but easy to make a case that on the
surface looks convincing. And no, I have built no motors. I do use
gasoline however, and I drive.

So all I'm saying, is that for me to believe the break in theory, I need to
see some more facts. I know its nearly impossible but like I said above, a
high mileage comparison of several identical cars, maintained properly, but
"broken in" differently would be much more convincing than listening to an
old guy who also swears up and down that glass windows flow.

Sorry so long.

--Dan

LOL, were you stoned when you went off on ecstacy? Heh heh. Have you ever
looked for evidence. Im sure tons of it exist. Visit you local library and
look it up. Write Subaru... ask them what they base their recomendations
on.


Rob

 

[y_p_w]

Truthfully? Thats too infrequent.

Wow - I'm still trying to break in my new WRX, and I'm at the very least
going plus/minus 5 MPH every 30 seconds. I'm getting rather sad gas
mileage though.

That might not be so bad. I wouldnt worry about that part.

I've occasionally blipped the tach just above 4K, but never more
than a second. Makes it frustrating when I'd really want to
floor it.

Nah. I wouldnt worry about it. Honestly I think we vary our speeds while
driving a lot more than we realize. Is yours an automatic? Stick? The
rings arent exactly metal on metal as one poster mentioned. Although when
under differing pressures, such as in accelerating or decelerating, the
*high* points are rubbed off. Different cylinder angles occur under
different loads. This all needs to be taken into account. The
cylinder/pistons are seperated by a film of oil, as you probably know. No
rubbing occurs between the two. Just the high points of contact are rubbed
or polished off. But the rings also need to be seated... and that requires
differing engine loads as well. You dont want your rings twirling circles
forever.

He said STi, so it's the 6-speed stick.

What I would do, even now, is when you first get in your car to go somewhere
use the rpm band. Be generous. Overly so. After its warmed up I wouldnt
worry about it. Just my .02

Absolutely.

 

[Matt F]

Nah. I wouldnt worry about it. Honestly I think we vary our speeds while
driving a lot more than we realize. Is yours an automatic? Stick? The
rings arent exactly metal on metal as one poster mentioned. Although when
under differing pressures, such as in accelerating or decelerating, the
*high* points are rubbed off. Different cylinder angles occur under
different loads. This all needs to be taken into account. The
cylinder/pistons are seperated by a film of oil, as you probably know. No
rubbing occurs between the two. Just the high points of contact are rubbed
or polished off. But the rings also need to be seated... and that requires
differing engine loads as well. You dont want your rings twirling circles
forever.

What I would do, even now, is when you first get in your car to go somewhere
use the rpm band. Be generous. Overly so. After its warmed up I wouldnt
worry about it. Just my .02


Rob

Much appreciated. About warming up, though....is it necessary to sit in my
car for 5 minutes in the morning (and evening) to let it get to a reasonable
temperature? Or can I get away with, say, 2 minutes, then drive very
conservatively until the temperature is warm enough to let loose and scare
some grandmothers?

Matt

 

[Edward Hayes]

Long idling warms up the engine too slow and that's where most wear occurs.
I let mine idle for 30-60 seconds and then drive moderately until the temp
gage is up to its normal leveling off point which takes about 7 minutes when
the outside temp is ~ 60 degrees. eddie

 

[Ken Gilbert]

Not hard to prove? How do you figure? Its like those TV commercials that
actually, the pictures were deliberately misleading.

the two scans were not of the same subject. they showed two different
subjects whose baseline activities were not even close--essentially,
the highest high vs. the lowest low.

don't get me started on the war on drugs propiganda...

LOL, were you stoned when you went off on ecstacy? Heh heh. Have you ever
looked for evidence. Im sure tons of it exist. Visit you local library and

if you'd been paying attention, you would have noticed the latest
brouhaha over the latest mdma study by the government-hired dr. george
ricaurte:

http://mdma.net/toxicity/ricaurte.html
http://mdma.net/toxicity/retraction.html

the entire thing looks like bullshit, smells like bullshit, and sits
there steaming just like bullshit.

do some googling, and educate yourself. a lot of "experts" out there
are scientists of the worst sort.

ken

 

[Rob Duncan]

Long idling warms up the engine too slow and that's where most wear occurs.
I let mine idle for 30-60 seconds and then drive moderately until the temp
gage is up to its normal leveling off point which takes about 7 minutes when
the outside temp is ~ 60 degrees. eddie

During his break in though I would use this opportunity to take advantage of
the differing clearances in a cool engine. When things have room to wiggle,
or work at small angles when a large clearence is present, its an
opportunity to rub things off and smooth things down. I would be a little
heavy on the accelorater in the mornings for a while. But with as many
miles as you have already... really, I wouldnt worry about it. If your not
blowing smoke, and if your gas mileage is close to what it should be when
you drive moderatly, Im sure your fine.


Rob