And now, a word about head gaskets...

[m6onz5a]

Buy Felpro








The FelPro is at least as good as the original

Felpro gaskets are actually BETTER than OE. They don't just make OE
gaskets, they actually make improvements on the design so they work
better.

 

[Vic Smith]

It has been recommended (RE: my '88 Supra with an apparent BHG...)
that I PARK THE CAR AND PULL THE HEAD!

So, this I will do. Given that once I pull the head the HG is toast even
if it's not blown, I obviously have to buy a new one.

I have seen them as low as $17; also $26, with $58 being the usual on-line
price. Beck-Arnley wants ~$60, some places advertise Fel-Pro at $58, or
$17, or $26. My band's guitar player said yesterday, "Eh, $12, big deal".
I told him about the prices I was finding.

Toyota's list is $115; the best on-line price I have found is $85 and the
locval dealer will match that.

I'm kinda answering my own question here. The 7M-GE has a nasty habit of
blowing HGs, and IIRC the HG was replaced on this car a year before I
bought it. he total cost of the job was a shade under $1,000. When I had
the valve covers off to replace the gaskets I checked the torque on the
head bolts and they were above 68 ft/lbs; the original spec was 58 ft/lbs
and a Toyota TSB about BHGs said 72 ft/lbs (IIRC) was recommended, so
whoever did the job knew they had to use the revised spec. I'm betting
they used and off-the-rack gasket and maybe mostly responsible for why I
have to do it again.

So, do I go aftermarket, save a few bucks and perhaps have to do it all
again in 7 years or so? The car is now 22 years old. If I do have to do
the HG again it will be ~30 years old; it's not in *bad* shape, but it's
not a Collector's Item, either.

Or, do I spend the $85 and get the Real Deal and hope things are good
enough to get another 80,000 miles out of it (it has ~220,000 now...)?

The thing I SHOULD do, obviously, is pull the engine and have the whole
thing refreshed. A local engine guy, who's one of the best in the country
quoted me $2200 for complete bottom end refurb, and I know when I get it
back it will be one of the best 7M-GEs in the country.

If there's a Supra forum(s), check that out for gasket
recommendations.
It's not a given the Fel-Pro will have the best gasket.
For the GM 3800 Series II lower intakes the Fel-Pro was said to be
identical to the problematic OEM.
In mid-2005 GM came out with an aluminum framed LIM gasket that is
considered the one that won't fail. Fel-Pro doesn't have it.
Toyota may have the best gasket. Might be harder to get a good gasket
judgement on the 7M-GE versus the 3800 Series II due to difference in
the pool of experience though.
Rebuild versus doing the head gasket gets called mostly by the pain of
doing the head gasket and how bad you want the car and how long you
figure to have it.
If it's a fairly easy job you just might do the HG.
Keep in mind how long the local guy will be available and working too.
Nobody is forever.
I've had cars that I wouldn't think twice about spending $3-4k putting
in a brand new long block. But usually body rust makes the whole deal
a bad one. Did it once though, and no regrets.
Consider how you'll feel if your cost/labor doing the HG gets paid
back a few months later with a rod knock.
Happened to me when I did heads in the high mile 350 I had in my van.
Just a waste of time/money.
Once you open an engine you can find the work expanding.
For example on the 350 I had a burned valve. Well, when the heads are
off you really want to replace those 16 old lifters, right?
Whoa, there's quite a bit of carbon on those piston tops and I see a
little scoring on the cylinder walls. Maybe I should do the lower
end. You get the picture.
And really scour info sources before you start.
To cut this off and maybe provide something useful I'm starting a new
thread to discuss this a bit in the tech and GM groups. Shop manual
versus net know-how.

--Vic

 

[clare]

If there's a Supra forum(s), check that out for gasket
recommendations.
It's not a given the Fel-Pro will have the best gasket.
For the GM 3800 Series II lower intakes the Fel-Pro was said to be
identical to the problematic OEM.
In mid-2005 GM came out with an aluminum framed LIM gasket that is
considered the one that won't fail. Fel-Pro doesn't have it.
Toyota may have the best gasket. Might be harder to get a good gasket
judgement on the 7M-GE versus the 3800 Series II due to difference in
the pool of experience though.
Rebuild versus doing the head gasket gets called mostly by the pain of
doing the head gasket and how bad you want the car and how long you
figure to have it.
If it's a fairly easy job you just might do the HG.
Keep in mind how long the local guy will be available and working too.
Nobody is forever.
I've had cars that I wouldn't think twice about spending $3-4k putting
in a brand new long block. But usually body rust makes the whole deal
a bad one. Did it once though, and no regrets.
Consider how you'll feel if your cost/labor doing the HG gets paid
back a few months later with a rod knock.
Happened to me when I did heads in the high mile 350 I had in my van.
Just a waste of time/money.
Once you open an engine you can find the work expanding.
For example on the 350 I had a burned valve. Well, when the heads are
off you really want to replace those 16 old lifters, right?
Whoa, there's quite a bit of carbon on those piston tops and I see a
little scoring on the cylinder walls. Maybe I should do the lower
end. You get the picture.
And really scour info sources before you start.
To cut this off and maybe provide something useful I'm starting a new
thread to discuss this a bit in the tech and GM groups. Shop manual
versus net know-how.

--Vic

Pull the head, clean things up, and if it looks too bad you just made
pulling the engine easier.

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

If there's a Supra forum(s), check that out for gasket recommendations.
It's not a given the Fel-Pro will have the best gasket. For the GM 3800
Series II lower intakes the Fel-Pro was said to be identical to the
problematic OEM.
In mid-2005 GM came out with an aluminum framed LIM gasket that is
considered the one that won't fail. Fel-Pro doesn't have it. Toyota may
have the best gasket. Might be harder to get a good gasket judgement on
the 7M-GE versus the 3800 Series II due to difference in the pool of
experience though.
Rebuild versus doing the head gasket gets called mostly by the pain of
doing the head gasket and how bad you want the car and how long you figure
to have it.
If it's a fairly easy job you just might do the HG. Keep in mind how long
the local guy will be available and working too. Nobody is forever.
I've had cars that I wouldn't think twice about spending $3-4k putting in
a brand new long block. But usually body rust makes the whole deal a bad
one. Did it once though, and no regrets. Consider how you'll feel if your
cost/labor doing the HG gets paid back a few months later with a rod
knock. Happened to me when I did heads in the high mile 350 I had in my
van. Just a waste of time/money.
Once you open an engine you can find the work expanding. For example on
the 350 I had a burned valve. Well, when the heads are off you really
want to replace those 16 old lifters, right? Whoa, there's quite a bit of
carbon on those piston tops and I see a little scoring on the cylinder
walls. Maybe I should do the lower end. You get the picture.
And really scour info sources before you start. To cut this off and maybe
provide something useful I'm starting a new thread to discuss this a bit
in the tech and GM groups. Shop manual versus net know-how.

--Vic

ARRRRRGGGGHHHHH!

Thanks! Now my brain REALLY hurts!

I have a job where I drive a lot, and all day I was weighing the options:
it's a 22 year old car, with 220,000 miles on it. I can get ~80,000 or
less out of it, depending. However, the way it runs it may go more.

Also: transmission needs work. LSD is on the way out. Body has some rust,
but not bad, but I have to get on it soon. Needs either a new PS high
pressure hose, and/or PS pump, and/or rack and pinion...

This is my third sports car, and my third major headache. You think I'd
learn by now and buy stoic, solid sedans and stay away from the
high-strung models. But, where's the fun in that?

So, I can do the majority of the body work myself, and there is a guitar
player in my band who will help with the harder stuff and paint it (he
does EXCELLENT paint jobs...). I can probably do the HG myself, but beyond
that I'd have to seek professional help...

So, do I patch it and run it till it blows, go all through it and hope it
gets another 100,000 miles, sell it, or...

I always wanted a Supra. There are better examples out there, and there
are a lot worse. This is a good base car for a rebuild. (There's also
another one, literally around the corner with a fresh HG and a turbo for
$1500...the kid bought a truck)

Of course, there's also the 1990 Mitsubishi 3000GT I saw today for $1700...
always wanted one of those, too...

I am leaning towards parking it for 2-3 years and going through it system
by system until it is one of the better stock Supras on the East Coast...

 

[dsi1]

This is my third sports car, and my third major headache. You think I'd
learn by now and buy stoic, solid sedans and stay away from the
high-strung models. But, where's the fun in that?

Not much fun however, if this is a habit you wish to break, just get
married and have kids - this will pretty much put an end to you having
fun. I dimly remember my father coming home with a convertible when we
was kids and we took our first ride in it. Now that was fun! My dad was
excited and so were we. My guess is that having two (three?) excited
kids in that thing scared my mother to death and that was pretty much
the last time we rode or saw that car. Poor dad...

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

Not much fun however, if this is a habit you wish to break, just get
married and have kids - this will pretty much put an end to you having
fun. I dimly remember my father coming home with a convertible when we was
kids and we took our first ride in it. Now that was fun! My dad was
excited and so were we. My guess is that having two (three?) excited kids
in that thing scared my mother to death and that was pretty much the last
time we rode or saw that car. Poor dad...

LOL! I bet.

But the kids are growed and out and after the divorce I was left with a
big, empty hole in my life (or, without, depending on your POV...) so when
this car came up for near nothing I decided I'd do it.

I get attatched to my cars. However, this one has me thinking about eBay...
I love Toyotas, and this is the flagship. But it's the cash situation...

 

[AMuzi]

LOL! I bet.

But the kids are growed and out and after the divorce I was left with a
big, empty hole in my life (or, without, depending on your POV...) so when
this car came up for near nothing I decided I'd do it.

I get attatched to my cars. However, this one has me thinking about eBay...
I love Toyotas, and this is the flagship. But it's the cash situation...

$1800+:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1986...iewItem&pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item35a9dc3a1d

 

[aarcuda69062]

It's not a given the Fel-Pro will have the best gasket.
For the GM 3800 Series II lower intakes the Fel-Pro was said to be
identical to the problematic OEM.
In mid-2005 GM came out with an aluminum framed LIM gasket that is
considered the one that won't fail. Fel-Pro doesn't have it.

Not true. Fel-Pro part number 98014T

 

[Vic Smith]

Not true. Fel-Pro part number 98014T

Thanks for the update. When we did the Bonneville last year the
latest word in the Bonneville forum was only GM had the metal framed.

--Vic

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

$1800+:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1986...iewItem&pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item35a9dc3a1d

Hmmm...I wonder what it has for trouble you can't see. At least mine
*looks* good!

http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz148/Supraman_88/Supra_sm.jpg

 

[AMuzi]

Hmmm...I wonder what it has for trouble you can't see. At least mine
*looks* good!

http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz148/Supraman_88/Supra_sm.jpg

Seller says it's "super fast" and no rust, recently stolen
in Arizona or something like that.

Seriously, cars are generally cheap on ebay now. My own
recent purchase and an employee's car were good value.

I know nothing about this or any Supra. This one may have
the same head gasket issue as yours. Or not.

 

[chuckcar]

Hmmm...I wonder what it has for trouble you can't see. At least mine
*looks* good!

"may need tranny adjustment" Hmmm.

Assuming there *is* such a car. I have severe doubts about ebay. A while
ago, they had a entry for a pre-1970's Lotus F1 car. The only real pictures
they had - aside from one that seemed to be copied out of Grand Prix
Legends, was of an unpainted aluminum body shell. Nothing else.

 

[zzyzzx]

It's not a given the Fel-Pro will have the best gasket.

For the GM 3800 Series II lower intakes the Fel-Pro was said to be
identical to the problematic OEM.
In mid-2005 GM came out with an aluminum framed LIM gasket that is
considered the one that won't fail.  Fel-Pro doesn't have it.

I just did one on a 3400 in an Alero and the Fel-pro one is metal
framed and a lot better than the one that came with the car.