4 or 6 Cylinder Outback?

[Rick Courtright]

So when you use 8 liters per 100 km, that's getting over 29 miles per US
gallon. Wow, that's high. And when you use 15 liters, that's less than
16 mpg. Wow, that's low. That's wide variation! My fillups never yield
me more than 25 mpg or less than 22. I guess I drive consistently

Hi,

This is purely an apples to oranges comparison, but I've got a 3.0 liter
V-6 Camry with an auto. Overall mileage is about 22.5 mpg, but the range
is all over the chart, from under 16 mpg around town, to 30 mpg on the
best highway trips. These numbers seem to be in line with what folks are
reporting for 3.0 liter Subies.

OTOH, my 1.8 liter Subie, 4wd w/ a five spd, has averaged 27.5 mpg for
the last 150k miles. High is right at the same 30 mpg as the Camry--in
fact, comparing mileage between the two on a coupla longer trips I make
each year (600-1200 miles), the two cars are within TENTHS of an mpg of
each other--but the lows are usually in the 22-24 mpg range. (There's
always FAR less variation between town and highway figures with the
Subie than the Toyota.)

Both cars are driven as "identically" as I find possible to do, so go
figure on the mileage spreads! Let's just say I'm no longer as surprised
at the wide ranges people report as I once might have been.

Rick

 

[AS]

From a local subaru dealer mechanic:

There is nothing like the reliability of the 6 cyl engine. He reports
lil issues with the H4 but says that the H6 he only sees for scheduled
maintenance.

My, a lil late, $.02

 

[Guest]

Both cars are driven as "identically" as I find possible to do, so go
figure on the mileage spreads! Let's just say I'm no longer as surprised
at the wide ranges people report as I once might have been.

Yes mileage varies greatly, influenced by the
-driver
-driving conditions
-driving speed and acceleration
-the vehicle itself.

Only highway driving on cruise control is comparable between vehicles.

I generally get 66% of the highway mileage in urban driving.
If the air conditioner is on the mileage is lower.

Vehicles from different manufacturers give me different results.
In general Chrysler cars give me the EPA mileage, GM cars give me
slightly better than the EPA and Ford cars give me less than the EPA
figures.

 

[eachcornerpulling]

So when you use 8 liters per 100 km, that's getting over 29 miles per US
gallon. Wow, that's high. And when you use 15 liters, that's less than
16 mpg. Wow, that's low. That's wide variation! My fillups never yield
me more than 25 mpg or less than 22. I guess I drive consistently
between fillups.

The wide variation is due to the fact that when just driving around my
home town it's all short trips, and always up and down steep hills
running less than ten minutes. What I really need is an electric car
with regenerative braking!

On out of town trips, I get consistently good mileage and, as others
have noted, having a light foot really helps.

 

[Edward Hayes]

Aside from the miles per dollar difference, there is the 4 cyl timing
belt replacement cost. My 2000 Forester is now at ~100,000 miles is
due for a timing belt change. My dealer says that service alone will
cost 5-$600 and if I want to include the water pump at the same time
the cost will be ~$700. That to me is an unacceptable maintence
expense. I will do it myself with help from a friend and using OEM
parts the job will cost ~$210 and maybe 6 ? hours of work. I never did
like timing belts because of the maintence and cost over a roller
chain. Subaru, with their premium 6 cyl engine uses a roller chain
that has no replacement interval. So if you plan on keeping your car
for over 100,000 miles then 6-$700 (today's prices) will buy allot of
premium gas.

 

[bigjim]

So if you plan on keeping your car
for over 100,000 miles then 6-$700 (today's prices) will buy allot of
premium gas. <<

The cost of premium is .20-25 cents greater than regular. The 6 is
likely to average 20 mpg where the 4 gets 23 for most people in city
type driving. I drive 400 miles per week. The additional fuel cost
would be $5/week or $20/month to use premium. That equates to $240
/year extra just to use premium. If it takes 4 years to reach 100k
miles then the 6 cyl costs are $880 over the 4 in fuel costs plus the
$$$$$ to buy a 6 cyl model. Of course no harm will come by using
regular fuel regardless of what anyone says so the cost of timing belt
change is still less than the initial cost of buying a 6 cyl. I too
hate timing belts and wish they would use chains.

 

[JDC]

I owned a 2000 Outback limited automatic with a 4 cylinder engne. It got
24-25 miles per gallon and was fine except in the mountains and when I
needed to pass another car quickly when it was on the sluggish side. I now
own a 2004 6-clinder Outback automatic. It gets 23-24 miles per gallon, runs
on premium fuel and has plenty of power in the mountains and for quick
passing. Despite the extra cost for premium gas, I am very satisfied with
the 6-cylinder purchase.

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

I owned a 2000 Outback limited automatic with a 4 cylinder engne. It got
24-25 miles per gallon and was fine except in the mountains and when I
needed to pass another car quickly when it was on the sluggish side. I now
own a 2004 6-clinder Outback automatic. It gets 23-24 miles per gallon, runs
on premium fuel and has plenty of power in the mountains and for quick
passing. Despite the extra cost for premium gas, I am very satisfied with
the 6-cylinder purchase.

We also have an H6 OBW. I sprang for it over the 4 because I know it
will be fully loaded with 'stuff' (jewelry show booth and merchandise)
several times a year and be used on many occasions for distance travel.
Plus I wanted a little more power in case I needed to tow with. Being
primarily my wife's car, it also got the 4EAT. All considered, we've
been happy. I'm sure we would've found the 4 adequate - but the 6 just
gives me a little more confidence in maneuvering around the D/FW
highways with a loaded wagon. It does have an annoying problem
downshifting at high speeds, but I suspect that is the tranny - not the
engine.

Carl

 

[Al]

We also have an H6 OBW. I sprang for it over the 4 because I know it
will be fully loaded with 'stuff' (jewelry show booth and merchandise)
several times a year and be used on many occasions for distance travel.
Plus I wanted a little more power in case I needed to tow with. Being
primarily my wife's car, it also got the 4EAT. All considered, we've
been happy. I'm sure we would've found the 4 adequate - but the 6 just
gives me a little more confidence in maneuvering around the D/FW
highways with a loaded wagon. It does have an annoying problem
downshifting at high speeds, but I suspect that is the tranny - not the
engine.

Carl

My '91 Jeep had a switch that changed the shift points on the tranny. It
had an Econmode and a PowerMode. It was fansastic. Is this so hard to do
that new cars don't have this option. I would love it on my '03 Outback.

Al

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

My '91 Jeep had a switch that changed the shift points on the tranny. It
had an Econmode and a PowerMode. It was fansastic. Is this so hard to do
that new cars don't have this option. I would love it on my '03 Outback.

Al

Mine does an over-rev of a couple-to-several 100 rpms before it slams
down to 3rd. On inclines when the cruise control is engaged I can see
the TC unlock, that's worth about 125-150 rpm, then further slowing will
cause the CC to downshift - better hold on! You have to be traveling
above 70-75 mph to detect it - but it is terrifying at 80! Happens with
CC disengaged and when you need to pass too. I know, this doesn't affect
many folks - but in certain situations in northern N. mexico/southern
Colorado one can be doing 84 and be fairly safe from the po-po. So if
you're doing 80 and need to pass a motorhome or otherwise 'jockey for
position' hammering down can be required. It seems very rough on the
drivetrain too. I complained once and of course they found nothing
wrong. Perhpas I should let my new dealership try to duplicate the
problem or take a tech for a ride.

Carl

 

[eachcornerpulling]

Mine does an over-rev of a couple-to-several 100 rpms before it slams
down to 3rd. On inclines when the cruise control is engaged I can see
the TC unlock, that's worth about 125-150 rpm, then further slowing will
cause the CC to downshift - better hold on! You have to be traveling
above 70-75 mph to detect it - but it is terrifying at 80!....

This happens on my 05 OBW and I agree it's scary - sure wakes you up
in a hurry when dozing along under cruise control on a freeway at
75-80 mph!

It doesn't happen in normal driving and my dealer couldn't reproduce
it because local roads with hills don't permit that speed, neither
could he find anything about it from Subaru, but there have been
others who reported it on this forum.

The solution (at least in my 05 OBW) is to go to manual shift and keep
it in 4th at high speeds on rolling roads.

 

[Michael Pardee]

Aside from the miles per dollar difference, there is the 4 cyl timing belt
replacement cost. My 2000 Forester is now at ~100,000 miles is due for a
timing belt change. My dealer says that service alone will cost 5-$600 and
if I want to include the water pump at the same time the cost will be
~$700. That to me is an unacceptable maintence expense. I will do it
myself with help from a friend and using OEM parts the job will cost ~$210
and maybe 6 ? hours of work. I never did like timing belts because of the
maintence and cost over a roller chain. Subaru, with their premium 6 cyl
engine uses a roller chain that has no replacement interval. So if you
plan on keeping your car for over 100,000 miles then 6-$700 (today's
prices) will buy allot of premium gas.

Once I would have disagreed with you. Older chains were even less reliable
than belts, with 60K miles being about the life expectancy 25 years ago. By
the mid 80s it was up to nearly 100K miles (and chains didn't usually break,
they would wear to the point they ate holes in the chain covers or jumped).
But in those days if you said you expected 200K miles from an engine even
the pros would look at you with a mixture of doubt and sympathy.

Now chains are lasting the life of the engine - about 200K miles, and they
are not appearing on the maintenance schedule. I think it is a combination
both of design improvements and improved oil formulation.

Mike

 

[AS]

Hey Al:

In newer cars, the transmission electronic control module senses how you
drive, how fast you depress the gas pedal, etc. etc and then it changes
the shifting points automatically.

 

[AS]

Yep, it is all about lubrication

Once I would have disagreed with you. Older chains were even less reliable
than belts, with 60K miles being about the life expectancy 25 years ago. By
the mid 80s it was up to nearly 100K miles (and chains didn't usually break,
they would wear to the point they ate holes in the chain covers or jumped).
But in those days if you said you expected 200K miles from an engine even
the pros would look at you with a mixture of doubt and sympathy.

Now chains are lasting the life of the engine - about 200K miles, and they
are not appearing on the maintenance schedule. I think it is a combination
both of design improvements and improved oil formulation.

Mike

 

[John Rethorst]

[/QUOTE]

I got a coupon from my authorized dealer, to replace the timing belt for $279.

 

[Michael Pardee]

I got a coupon from my authorized dealer, to replace the timing belt for
$279.
[/QUOTE]

That's a great price from a good source. Be sure to specify changing the
water pump at least - it's a tragedy to see one go out, maybe breaking the
timing belt.

Mike

 

[Edward Hayes]

Yes; I did the water pump, thermostat, radiator hoses, alt and ac
belts and a careful check of seals & oil pump. The job took about 2
hours not including 2 coffee breaks. All in all not a bad job.

 

[lkreh]

I had my timing belt replaced last year by my dealer with a service
coupon. Cost $319. I understand most dealers mail such coupon
booklets to customers and have them available online. Given that the
timing belt is a once every four-five year maintenance issue, that
shouldn't deter anyone from the 4 cyl. Reliable or not, I'm sure the 6
cyl. is not maintenance free.

 

[Edward Hayes]

I wish my Subaru dealer would send my a $ coupon for a timing belt
change. I asked my dealer and was told 5-600 for the belt and another
100 for a water pump replacement. Now I agree that $300 + will not
sway me as to buy a 4 or 6 but, 5, 6 or $700 for a timing belt and
water pump only still leaves one with an oil pump and main/camshaft
seals. People on these NGs are quoted as having a 1200 dollar charge
when the idler pulleys, tensioner, crankshaft and camshaft seals are
replaced in addition to the timing belt and water pump. . That in my
opinion represents a very high and unacceptable maintenance cost.
Lucky I am to be able to do it myself but not forever. JMHO Ed

 

[Edwin Hurwitz]

I also live in Colorado and am a musician. I have a 4 and even loaded
with gear going to gigs in the mountains, it's fine. I can pass anybody
I need to within the speed limits going over the passes and certainly go
as fast as I want in Kansas! When I was researching Subarus to get this
one (my 4th, since I keep getting hit. Once I was almost killed by a
porta potty, but that's another story) the local Subaru shop,
Super-Rupair, told me that the 4s outlast the 6s. Maybe things have
changed, but I haven't regretted getting this one.

HTH
Edwin