Updates continue...

[Fred Boer]

Hi all:

As you may remember... my long litany of issues was not *quite* resolved - I
still had a problem with my power steering system: it whined like a loud,
shrill dentist's drill - but only when cold and only for a minute or so.

When we last left the story, we were on our third steering pump (original,
first replacement, second replacement)... The garage wanted to try, one last
time, to really, really flush out the power steering fluid. They took the
reservoir off, and the hose(s?) and soaked them and cleaned them and drained
the fluid and put in fresh fluid.

I won't know if this helped until the car is stone cold, but I *did* notice
a pronounced shuddering in the steering when a very slow speeds (i.e.
manouvering around at a gas station).

The mechanic suggested darkly that replaceing the "rack" was the next step.

1. Is there a chance that air bubbles might be causing the suddering
(Please, please!!).
2. How can it be the rack if the whining happens when the car is
stationary?!

Thanks!

Fred Boer - Amateur Access Enthusiast
Interests: Library software / Z39.50 / Web Services
Freeware Small Library Application available here:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/lornarourke/

 

[houndman]

Hi all:

As you may remember... my long litany of issues was not *quite* resolved - I
still had a problem with my power steering system: it whined like a loud,
shrill dentist's drill - but only when cold and only for a minute or so.

When we last left the story, we were on our third steering pump (original,
first replacement, second replacement)... The garage wanted to try, one last
time, to really, really flush out the power steering fluid. They took the
reservoir off, and the hose(s?) and soaked them and cleaned them and drained
the fluid and put in fresh fluid.

I won't know if this helped until the car is stone cold, but I *did* notice
a pronounced shuddering in the steering when a very slow speeds (i.e.
manouvering around at a gas station).

The mechanic suggested darkly that replaceing the "rack" was the next step.

1. Is there a chance that air bubbles might be causing the suddering
(Please, please!!).
2. How can it be the rack if the whining happens when the car is
stationary?!

Thanks!

Fred Boer - Amateur Access Enthusiast
Interests: Library software / Z39.50 / Web Services
Freeware Small Library Application available here:http://www3.sympatico.ca/lornarourke/

Before replacing anything, try Lucas's Power Steering Additive. It
fixed Morning Sickness in my old Chevy, that below 40deg, The steering
was locked till I rocked it from side to side a few times and the
binding went away. I haven't been able to flush the steering yet, but
sucked some old fluid out and added some of the fix, and the problem
is 95% better. They say to put 12oz in, and I only got in about 4.

VF

 

[Fred Boer]

Apologies for not mentioning it, but an additive *was* added to the fluid
some time ago - and the current thinking was that the additive was making
the fluid too viscous(sp?) viscuous(?)... too *thick* (!) which was causing
the whining of the ps pump. I.E. the pump whined because the fluid settled
and thickened overnight in the cold. Then, once whipped about for a minute
or so, the pump could manage to circulate it properly.

So, the idea here is to clear all traces of additive to see if the pump can
now work properly. I will know in the morning if the whine is gone!

Thanks for responding!

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

Apologies for not mentioning it, but an additive *was* added to the fluid
some time ago - and the current thinking was that the additive was making
the fluid too viscous(sp?) viscuous(?)... too *thick* (!) which was causing
the whining of the ps pump. I.E. the pump whined because the fluid settled
and thickened overnight in the cold. Then, once whipped about for a minute
or so, the pump could manage to circulate it properly.

So, the idea here is to clear all traces of additive to see if the pump can
now work properly. I will know in the morning if the whine is gone!

Thanks for responding!

Um - I may have asked this before but don't recall. The shuddering you
feel - is it after the wheels are turned but while the car moving in an arc?
Or would it happen sitting still and moving the steering wheel
lock-to-lock?

The first could be torque bind and is a seperate issue from the PS
pump/system.

Carl

 

[AS]

It is very unlikely that you have gotten 3 ps pumps to be defective.

How many times have you replaced the drive belt? Even if it is properly
tensioned it could be slipping causing the shrill, and yes, it normally
happens when cold. Besides, if there is any oil or water leaking into
the belt or pulleys, it is possible for it to whine just for a while and
then go quiet.

I doubt the rack is defective. Purge the rack and pinion well, in
particular after having flushed the system.

I have seen cases in which the belt slipping intermittently will cause
what could be consider like a shudder.

Get a new mechanic too!

Good luck

 

[Fred Boer]

Dear Carl, et al..

No whining this morning, but it was 4 degrees (Celsius). So I can' t report
conclusively on that.

With respect to your questions:

This morning, I turned the wheel from full left to full right and back
again, and it didn't shudder. This was done at a full stop pavement. I will
try this several times today to see if this is consistent.

The shuddering does occur as the car is moving and I am turning the wheel. I
do not *think* it occurs if the wheel is not being turned... i.e. continuing
to shudder if I begin a turn but hold the wheel steady. I will try this
several times today to see if there is any consistency.

I will have to do some research on torque bind. It is a new concept for me.
Is it $$? Sigh...

 

[Fred Boer]

Good Morning:

I agree with respect to the 3 defective ps pumps. At this point, I seriously
wonder if it was *ever* a ps pump problem in the first place. The belts have
been inspected in three different shops (including a Subaru dealership) over
the last 6 months, so I'd be surprised if it was a belt or was the tension
on the belt, but who knows? I will have that checked again.

I am not mechanically minded, and I don't do my own service; what is
involved in "purging"? Is it something I can do, or is it a "mechanic"
thing?

Don't know what to say about the mechanic - several mechanics have been
involved with me over the last year and I would find it a stretch to blame
the mechanics.. still who knows? At this point I just feel cursed by the
demons of automobile reliability.

Thanks for responding!

Fred Boer - Amateur Access Enthusiast
Interests: Library software / Z39.50 / Web Services
Freeware Small Library Application available here:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/lornarourke/

 

[Fred Boer]

Again apologies for not mentioning I am discussing at 2002 Legacy Wagon with
158,000 kilometers... Don't know if that is significant...

 

[AS]

Check to see if the grooves in the belt look too shinny or glassy. Look
to see if the bottom of the valleys in the belt are shinny as if they
were contacting the ridges on the pulley. How much is a belt? 10 bucks?
Just change it if you have not done so.

In most cases, purging can be achieved by moving the steering wheel from
stop to stop and holding it momentarily at the stops. The factory
service manual suggests jacking the car up and with the engine off,
turning the steering wheel from stop to stop, very slowly until no more
bubbles show up in the ps fluid reservoir. In case bubbles keep
showing, leave for 1/2 hour and then repeat the same steps. When free
of bubbles, start the engine and repeat the process until free of
bubbles. Lower the car, repeat the process with the engine idling until
no more bubbles and the change of the fluid level is within 1/8". If
the fluid changes more than 1/8", bubbles keep appearing or there is a
grinding noise from the pump, leave for 1/2 hour and then repeat.

 

[Fred Boer]

Dear AS:

I have no problem with paying for a new belt and having it installed -
obviously cost isn't an issue - and I will do so if my whining problem is
not resolved.

Thanks for your detailed instructions on purging the ps system!

 

[Fred]

My 2001 Legacy had this noise and shudder, I got the TSB's from
alldatadiy.com and sure enough there is a TSB for PW shuddering when
cold, the fix is a redesigned hose. I installed this part and it fixed
the problem.

Steering - Power Steering Groan/Vibration
NUMBER: 04-11-04
DATE: 01/15/04

APPLICABILITY:
2000-2002MY Legacy Sedan, Wagon and Outback Vehicles w/ 2.5L Engines

SUBJECT:
Power Steering Hose - New Style

INTRODUCTION

The purpose of this bulletin is to address an abnormal noise (groan)
coming from the power steering pump and/or slight vibration in the
steering wheel when turning at very low speeds.

New part number is 34610AE09B

 

[Fred Boer]

Hi all:

I don't want to say this too loudly, for fear of jinxing my luck, but...
this morning (2 degrees celsius), there was no trace of whine when I started
my car. The level in the PS reservoir appeared to *maybe* have dropped from
yesterday (I should have marked it...). It was on the min line for cold and
on min line once hot. After 10-15 minutes of driving about both on the road
and in a parking lot, doing tight turns at varying speeds, and lock-to-lock
turns, I had no shuddering at all. (yay..)

Could the problem be solved? I am hopeful..

Cheers!

 

[Fred Boer]

Ok... I am ready to say it out loud:

My car is running great! No whining in the steering. No shuddering when I
turn. No stalling or driveability issues. For the first time in a year, I
have no problems with my Subie! (Well, I have a burned out light on the dash
and a cracked windshield.. but, you know.. no serious issues...)

Yipee! Here's to a trouble-free 2008!!