Subaru performance problems: in-efficient automatic transmission?

[boris]

I was reading edmunds.com review of 2007 Outback and saw this:
"Unfortunately, the Outback's automatic transmissions still leave much to be
desired, as they sap power by upshifting too early. Automatic-equipped XT
Limited models fare a little better in this regard, as their SI-Drive system
offers a driver-selectable "Sport Sharp" mode that quickens throttle
response and delays upshifts."
(see http://www.edmunds.com/subaru/outback/2007/review.html ).

This reminds me of how my 2001 Forester automatic behaves when driving
up-hill at highway speeds: the car starts to lose speed...I floor the gas
pedal, engine RPM goes to almost 5000...but then within a few seconds RPM
gets down to less than 3000. Does anybody know when/if Subaru will fix their
automatic transmissions? I'll be buying a new car in 2 years or so...would
like to get Subaru, but only if these issues are fixed by then.

Thanks,
Boris

 

[M.J.]

This reminds me of how my 2001 Forester automatic behaves when driving
up-hill at highway speeds: the car starts to lose speed...I floor the gas
pedal, engine RPM goes to almost 5000...but then within a few seconds RPM
gets down to less than 3000.

I have a '00 Impreza with an even less powerful 2.2l engine,
also automatic tranny, that behaves similarly, but I keep
flooring it utill I complete climbing the hill, or making the
pass, or whatever. I don't let it rev past 5000 rpm much
and it keeps churning nicely until I take my foot off the
accelerator slightly, then it upshifts and goes down to
3000rpm, exactly like you describe.

I drive in a very mountainous area, and I think there is nothing
wrong, the way the tranny works. Don't be afraid to rev the engine
at 5000 rpm, for longer that a few seconds, keep accelerating
as if you wanted to get it to 5500 rpm (I suspect you have a habit
of flooring it then backing off a bit and the tranny upshifts and
your rpms fall to 3000). Don't let it do that! If it is beyond
your control then you maybe have a problem.

If you are afraid to keep going at 5000 rpm or slightly more
for a minute or so, then I don't know what to tell you. I've been
revving the engine at 5000 rpm for runs that lasted several
good minutes over various steep long inclines. Frequently the
result is that I am even very slightly accelerating as I go uphill!

This engine is sturdy, and revving it a bit does it no harm.
I use synthetic oil in engine (changed at 3k miles) and
synthetic in transmission (changed every 15k miles). the
tranny also has an additional external cooler.

The car has 50k miles on it, and has been driven like this
since new, I also frequently drive long distances at high
speeds in very hot wheather, where I do around 3400 rpms
for hours at a time (going Sacramento- L.A). The engine
seems to handle this type of duty very well, so far.
Though a run like this in 100 degree weather helped
kill my rear wheel bearings once, or so I believe cause
they failed at 25K miles soon after two similar trips.

M.J.

 

[M.J.]

I have a '00 Impreza with an even less powerful 2.2l engine,
also automatic tranny, that behaves similarly, but I keep
flooring it utill I complete climbing the hill, or making the
pass, or whatever. I don't let it rev past 5000 rpm much
and it keeps churning nicely until I take my foot off the
accelerator slightly, then it upshifts and goes down to
3000rpm, exactly like you describe.

I drive in a very mountainous area, and I think there is nothing
wrong, the way the tranny works. Don't be afraid to rev the engine
at 5000 rpm, for longer that a few seconds, keep accelerating
as if you wanted to get it to 5500 rpm (I suspect you have a habit
of flooring it then backing off a bit and the tranny upshifts and
your rpms fall to 3000). Don't let it do that! If it is beyond
your control then you maybe have a problem.

If you are afraid to keep going at 5000 rpm or slightly more
for a minute or so, then I don't know what to tell you. I've been
revving the engine at 5000 rpm for runs that lasted several
good minutes over various steep long inclines. Frequently the
result is that I am even very slightly accelerating as I go uphill!

This engine is sturdy, and revving it a bit does it no harm.
I use synthetic oil in engine (changed at 3k miles) and
synthetic in transmission (changed every 15k miles). the
tranny also has an additional external cooler.

The car has 50k miles on it, and has been driven like this
since new, I also frequently drive long distances at high
speeds in very hot wheather, where I do around 3400 rpms
for hours at a time (going Sacramento- L.A). The engine
seems to handle this type of duty very well, so far.
Though a run like this in 100 degree weather helped
kill my rear wheel bearings once, or so I believe cause
they failed at 25K miles soon after two similar trips.

I forgot to add, I like to use premium gasoline or add
some Marvel Mystrey Oil into the gas, as extra
lubricant in the gasoline greatly helps smooth the
engine, especially at high revs, also helps cools
things a bit, I believe.

M.J.

 

[isquat]

I was reading edmunds.com review of 2007 Outback and saw this:
"Unfortunately, the Outback's automatic transmissions still leave much to be
desired, as they sap power by upshifting too early. Automatic-equipped XT
Limited models fare a little better in this regard, as their SI-Drive system
offers a driver-selectable "Sport Sharp" mode that quickens throttle
response and delays upshifts."
(seehttp://www.edmunds.com/subaru/outback/2007/review.html).

This reminds me of how my 2001 Forester automatic behaves when driving
up-hill at highway speeds: the car starts to lose speed...I floor the gas
pedal, engine RPM goes to almost 5000...but then within a few seconds RPM
gets down to less than 3000. Does anybody know when/if Subaru will fix their
automatic transmissions? I'll be buying a new car in 2 years or so...would
like to get Subaru, but only if these issues are fixed by then.

There are two known existing fixes for your woe:
1. a standard transmission that's been around since the
dawn of automotive industry and is used probably in over 90%
of the cars sold outside the US of A
2. si-drive

 

[Howard Nelson]

I was reading edmunds.com review of 2007 Outback and saw this:
"Unfortunately, the Outback's automatic transmissions still leave much to be
desired, as they sap power by upshifting too early. Automatic-equipped XT
Limited models fare a little better in this regard, as their SI-Drive system
offers a driver-selectable "Sport Sharp" mode that quickens throttle
response and delays upshifts."
(see http://www.edmunds.com/subaru/outback/2007/review.html ).

This reminds me of how my 2001 Forester automatic behaves when driving
up-hill at highway speeds: the car starts to lose speed...I floor the gas
pedal, engine RPM goes to almost 5000...but then within a few seconds RPM
gets down to less than 3000. Does anybody know when/if Subaru will fix their
automatic transmissions? I'll be buying a new car in 2 years or so...would
like to get Subaru, but only if these issues are fixed by then.

Thanks,
Boris

What I have heard is that the next standard auto for the 4 cylinder non
turbo subarus will be a CVT unit so you may not like the proposed solution.
I think that some CVTs are much cheaper to produce but if you look at Nissan
forums their CVT has had significant problems and CVTs are replaceable (at
$5-6,000) but not repairable. Personally I would like to see Subaru offer
the new 6 cylinder engine transmission unit in the 2008 Tribeca as an option
on the Outback and Forester but I don't think that will happen. Personally I
will not buy a Subaru with a CVT until they have been out at least 5 years
and have proven themselves reliable. But then I purchase and keep cars and
don't lease. A 3 year lease might be a safe bet since you would turn the car
over within the warrantee period.

Cheers
Howard

 

[strchild]

For what it's worth, Howard, Subaru used a form of CVT in some of their
Justys years ago, which proved to be anything but reliable! Let's hope they
gleaned valuable lessons from early 90's experience.

As it is, I rather like the way Subaru's automatic transmission operates.
If they want to add a few more gears maybe, I wouldn't complain about that,
but it's operation as is strikes me as just an automated version of a
standard transmission - changing gears when I expect it to, and not when I
don't. I'm not sure the sort of magic that folks expect from their
transmission, but the domestic cars I've driven feel far too unpredictable
to me. Besides, if I want a particular gear, I can always shift it
manually. Maybe it's me, but that doesn't seem so hard to do. My brother's
BMW on the other hand... that thing is the most obnoxious auto tranny I've
felt, shifting for fuel economy at the expense of power!

~Brian

 

[David]

I have a '00 Impreza with an even less powerful 2.2l engine,
also automatic tranny, that behaves similarly, but I keep
flooring it utill I complete climbing the hill, or making the
pass, or whatever. I don't let it rev past 5000 rpm much
and it keeps churning nicely until I take my foot off the
accelerator slightly, then it upshifts and goes down to
3000rpm, exactly like you describe.

I drive in a very mountainous area, and I think there is nothing
wrong, the way the tranny works. Don't be afraid to rev the engine
at 5000 rpm, for longer that a few seconds, keep accelerating
as if you wanted to get it to 5500 rpm (I suspect you have a habit
of flooring it then backing off a bit and the tranny upshifts and
your rpms fall to 3000). Don't let it do that! If it is beyond
your control then you maybe have a problem.

If you are afraid to keep going at 5000 rpm or slightly more
for a minute or so, then I don't know what to tell you. I've been
revving the engine at 5000 rpm for runs that lasted several
good minutes over various steep long inclines. Frequently the
result is that I am even very slightly accelerating as I go uphill!

This engine is sturdy, and revving it a bit does it no harm.
I use synthetic oil in engine (changed at 3k miles) and
synthetic in transmission (changed every 15k miles). the
tranny also has an additional external cooler.

The car has 50k miles on it, and has been driven like this
since new, I also frequently drive long distances at high
speeds in very hot wheather, where I do around 3400 rpms
for hours at a time (going Sacramento- L.A). The engine
seems to handle this type of duty very well, so far.
Though a run like this in 100 degree weather helped
kill my rear wheel bearings once, or so I believe cause
they failed at 25K miles soon after two similar trips.

M.J.

I have been driving in 100+ degree weather forever. The effect on
wheel bearings is negligible. Also, you change your fluids too often.

 

[Bob's Backfire Burrito]

I forgot to add, I like to use premium gasoline or add
some Marvel Mystrey Oil into the gas, as extra
lubricant in the gasoline greatly helps smooth the
engine, especially at high revs, also helps cools
things a bit, I believe.

M.J.

Marvel Mystery Oil!!! HAHAHAHAHA

They still sell that shit?

Beaners used to buy that crap to run in their hooptie's to try to cut down
on the smoke rolling out the tailpipe.
For modern-day automobiles "Marvel Mystery Oil" is useless garbage, right up
there with "STP"

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

For what it's worth, Howard, Subaru used a form of CVT in some of their
Justys years ago, which proved to be anything but reliable! Let's hope they
gleaned valuable lessons from early 90's experience.

As it is, I rather like the way Subaru's automatic transmission operates.
If they want to add a few more gears maybe, I wouldn't complain about that,
but it's operation as is strikes me as just an automated version of a
standard transmission - changing gears when I expect it to, and not when I
don't. I'm not sure the sort of magic that folks expect from their
transmission, but the domestic cars I've driven feel far too unpredictable
to me. Besides, if I want a particular gear, I can always shift it
manually. Maybe it's me, but that doesn't seem so hard to do. My brother's
BMW on the other hand... that thing is the most obnoxious auto tranny I've
felt, shifting for fuel economy at the expense of power!

~Brian

IIRC FHI makes the CVT that is in the Murano!


Carl

 

[M.J.]

Marvel Mystery Oil!!! HAHAHAHAHA

They still sell that shit?

Beaners used to buy that crap to run in their hooptie's to try to cut down
on the smoke rolling out the tailpipe.
For modern-day automobiles "Marvel Mystery Oil" is useless garbage, right
up there with "STP"

I like beans, they're good for the digestive track.

As to Marvel Mystery Oil in the gas, as an upper cylinder
lubricant, I think it cannot harm, definitely helps keep things
like valves, exhaust valves, piston rings, free of carbon and
other deposits, just like beans can help rid your intestines
of remnants of old undigested meat and other junk that
over the years deposits there )))))))

M.J.

 

[bigjim]

Never noticed any performance issues with my 04 and auto trans. Made
it up and down mountains of VA and TN on cruise with NO trouble
maintaining set speed. Vehicle was also fully loaded. Still got
28-29 MPG. No complaints here. The only thing that will keep me from
considering another Subaru is the styling and ergonomics. Both
plunged into the toilet after the 04 MY.

 

[boris]

I forgot to add, I like to use premium gasoline or add
some Marvel Mystrey Oil into the gas, as extra
lubricant in the gasoline greatly helps smooth the
engine, especially at high revs, also helps cools
things a bit, I believe.

M.J.

I use plus gasoline (89).
I used to have '91 Integra auto. It had no problem going uphill at any
speed....especially when put into 3rd sport mode, it would pass pretty much
any other car (when going uphill)...it was way more agile than my 2001
Forester auto (in similar situation).

Boris

 

[M.J.]

I use plus gasoline (89).
I used to have '91 Integra auto. It had no problem going uphill at any
speed....especially when put into 3rd sport mode, it would pass pretty
much any other car (when going uphill)...it was way more agile than my
2001 Forester auto (in similar situation).

1991 Acura Integra, hmmm, a fine car with super high revving
dual overhead cam, multiple valve engine, that simply cannot be
compared to a Subaru Forester's boxer engine. It is just a different
beast. One is great at producing low rpm torque, the other exels
at high rpm power.

My friend had an Integra 1990, or 89, stick-shift. With four people
inside it had great difficulty accelerating from a standstill. If it were
equipped with AWD it would probably stall althogether. Very anemic
at low rpm, but lively at high rpms. Subaru boxers are the other way
around, and that's why they benefit a lot from having a turbo.

M.J.

 

[suburboturbo]

What I have heard is that the next standard auto for the 4 cylinder non
turbo subarus will be a CVT unit so you may not like the proposed solution.
I think that some CVTs are much cheaper to produce but if you look at Nissan
forums their CVT has had significant problems and CVTs are replaceable (at
$5-6,000) but not repairable. Personally I would like to see Subaru offer
the new 6 cylinder engine transmission unit in the 2008 Tribeca as an option
on the Outback and Forester but I don't think that will happen. Personally I
will not buy a Subaru with a CVT until they have been out at least 5 years
and have proven themselves reliable. But then I purchase and keep cars and
don't lease. A 3 year lease might be a safe bet since you would turn the car
over within the warrantee period.

Cheers
Howard- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The 6 is available in the high-end outbacks. I've got one, and have
no complaints about the 5 speed automatic. At least it's got a
sequential manual shift gate; holds gears well, stays in first from a
stop. Not as quick or as much fun to drive as my WRX, or even the 2.5
RS I had before that, but still a better choice than the SUVs I've had
(Cherokee Sport and Pathfinder SE). Quicker and more comfortable than
either, holds as much cargo, and capable of going most places I'd
choose to take the trucks (dirt roads, heavy snow, not quite the
Rubicon trail)

 

[Howard Nelson]

The 6 is available in the high-end outbacks. I've got one, and have
no complaints about the 5 speed automatic. At least it's got a
sequential manual shift gate; holds gears well, stays in first from a
stop. Not as quick or as much fun to drive as my WRX, or even the 2.5
RS I had before that, but still a better choice than the SUVs I've had
(Cherokee Sport and Pathfinder SE). Quicker and more comfortable than
either, holds as much cargo, and capable of going most places I'd
choose to take the trucks (dirt roads, heavy snow, not quite the
Rubicon trail)

Yes I realize the current 6/auto combo is OK. But. To get it or to get
stability control I have to get leather, plastic wood inside, LL Bead advert
logo on tailgate and embossed on the seats. What I was saying is I would
like to get the 6/auto/stability control option on the regular Outback. I
mean it is a Subaru after all not a Lexus. I don't think fellow campers or
my dog are impressed by the mid grade leather and I know the parking valet
will not be impressed by the plastic wood. The new 6 and transmission sounds
like a winner. More power, same milage and burns 87 octane. Since the 07
Tribeca and 07 LL bean Outback used the same 6/trans why couldn't they put
that combo in the O8 Outback rather than just in the Tribeca.

IMO the Tribeca is going to have a very hard time against the current
competition whereas the Outback has little competition (except perhaps the
08 Mazda tribute). Hope the Outback does not go with CVT in next generation
since I really like the car but would not purchase one with CVT until they
had about 5 years of experience with it.