Subaru Diesel

[M.J.]

A few years back I've heard stories about Subaru developing
a diesel engine in coperation with Isuzu. Then stories began to float
about a diesel to be made together with Porsche. Recently there was
a piece about it being a coperative effort with Toyota. Now this article
says Subaru is developing a diesel engine on its own.

I am beginning to think the Subaru diesel is just some kind of
urban myth.

http://www.whatcar.com/news-article.aspx?NA=221468

M.J.

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

A few years back I've heard stories about Subaru developing
a diesel engine in coperation with Isuzu. Then stories began to float
about a diesel to be made together with Porsche. Recently there was
a piece about it being a coperative effort with Toyota. Now this article
says Subaru is developing a diesel engine on its own.

I am beginning to think the Subaru diesel is just some kind of
urban myth.

http://www.whatcar.com/news-article.aspx?NA=221468

M.J.

Diesels are hugely popular in Europe, the hold up in this country has
been partly demand since the fuel is usually more than gasoline, plus
waiting for some sulphur regulations to settle down.

And Subaru seems to have a history of being the last to jump on a trend.

I dunno


Carl

 

[Rick Courtright]

Diesels are hugely popular in Europe, the hold up in this country has
been partly demand since the fuel is usually more than gasoline, plus
waiting for some sulphur regulations to settle down.

Hi,

Yes, I read last year approx 37% of cars sold in Europe were diesels!

Once we in the US get our heads out of a dark spot regarding the ongoing
horsepower race (who REALLY needs 300+ hp to be stuck in traffic?), the
"diesels are dirty" thing (many of the new ones are as clean as gasoline
models but REQUIRE low sulphur fuel or the emissions equipment will
"break"--we're just starting to require it here, but should be settled
in on that issue within the next 6 mos to a year from what I've read in
the biz pages) and the "but diesel costs more than gasoline" issue (get
out your calculator, boys and girls: just for example, a US model Toyota
Land Cruiser gets around 16-17 mpg or so, a Euro model of the same
vehicle w/ a diesel gets 29 mpg. Now which costs more to run?) issues, I
hope to see car-based diesels start making inroads in this country. Many
of them do BETTER than hybrids for fuel economy, and we don't have that
huge pile of dead batteries building up on the horizon to worry about!

As to Subaru being late to the table on some "trends," we've gotta
remember as a car company, it's pretty small, and I don't know what kind
of "allowance" FHI gives our favorite kid! So I'd guess budget
considerations are probably the biggest roadblock to "progress."

Rick

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Once we in the US get our heads out of a dark spot regarding the ongoing
horsepower race (who REALLY needs 300+ hp to be stuck in traffic?), the
"diesels are dirty" thing (many of the new ones are as clean as gasoline
models but REQUIRE low sulphur fuel or the emissions equipment will
"break"--we're just starting to require it here, but should be settled
in on that issue within the next 6 mos to a year from what I've read in
the biz pages) and the "but diesel costs more than gasoline" issue (get
out your calculator, boys and girls: just for example, a US model Toyota
Land Cruiser gets around 16-17 mpg or so, a Euro model of the same
vehicle w/ a diesel gets 29 mpg. Now which costs more to run?) issues, I
hope to see car-based diesels start making inroads in this country. Many
of them do BETTER than hybrids for fuel economy, and we don't have that
huge pile of dead batteries building up on the horizon to worry about!

I think DaimlerChrysler is making a heavy push for diesels in their Jeep
brand.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Donkey Agony]

A few years back I've heard stories about Subaru developing
a diesel engine in coperation with Isuzu. Then stories began to float
about a diesel to be made together with Porsche. Recently there was
a piece about it being a coperative effort with Toyota. Now this
article says Subaru is developing a diesel engine on its own.

I am beginning to think the Subaru diesel is just some kind of
urban myth.

http://www.whatcar.com/news-article.aspx?NA=221468

Doesn't seem to be a myth -- they're going to be bringing out both
hybrids and diesels. The hybrid tech is from Toyota; diesel tech is
being done in-house and should be available in 2008 (possibly end of
2007), taking precedence over the Toyota-developed hybrid tech. See:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11997143/

The big question-mark hovering over all this is the availability of
low-sulphur diesel in North America. Not if, but when.

It's akin to when everybody was talking about Bluetooth in the mid-late
nineties -- it was always supposed to be available Real Soon Now, but it
took a LOT longer. It's really only now that we're starting to see it
"everywhere".

So, will be a boxer diesel be available in the U.S. in 2008? If so,
what kind of diesel will it drink? Will you be able to get low-sulphur
diesel any place that currently sells "funky" diesel? I don't know the
answer to any of these. Does anybody?

 

[Ken Finney]

Doesn't seem to be a myth -- they're going to be bringing out both hybrids
and diesels. The hybrid tech is from Toyota; diesel tech is being done
in-house and should be available in 2008 (possibly end of 2007), taking
precedence over the Toyota-developed hybrid tech. See:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11997143/

The big question-mark hovering over all this is the availability of
low-sulphur diesel in North America. Not if, but when.

It's akin to when everybody was talking about Bluetooth in the mid-late
nineties -- it was always supposed to be available Real Soon Now, but it
took a LOT longer. It's really only now that we're starting to see it
"everywhere".

So, will be a boxer diesel be available in the U.S. in 2008? If so, what
kind of diesel will it drink? Will you be able to get low-sulphur diesel
any place that currently sells "funky" diesel? I don't know the answer to
any of these. Does anybody?

In the US, as of September 1, all on-road diesel at distribution terminals
must be Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel (ULSD) and by October 15, everything at
retail locations must be ULSD. I know it has already hit in Seattle, diesel
fuel went up about 30 cents a gallon in the last two weeks while gasoline
was falling in price.

 

[Donkey Agony]

In the US, as of September 1, all on-road diesel at distribution
terminals must be Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel (ULSD) and by October 15,
everything at retail locations must be ULSD. I know it has already
hit in Seattle, diesel fuel went up about 30 cents a gallon in the
last two weeks while gasoline was falling in price.

Very interesting -- thanks!

Is ULSD at the same level as what is currently used in Europe? As of
October 15th, will there be anything to prevent the newer diesel
automobiles currently used in Europe from being used in (most of) the
U.S.?

Also, I believe I read somewhere that even ULSD cars won't pass
California's super-strict emissions tests. Is that correct?

 

[strchild]

I've read that about the ULSD not being enough to pass emissions
effictively. Apparently, when new vehicles meet 2007 emissions, they are
supposed to have some sort of device to spray urea into the exhaust system
to reduce the NOx before it reaches the catalyst. And I remember reading it
will run at about 1 gallon of urea to every 10 gallons of diesel burned.
Sounds like fun times to me. (-; Of course, the urea system is still up in
the air, and they may figure how to get a NOx absorbing catalyst to work
instead, but so far even with ULSD the absorber is poisoned by the sulfer in
some 2,000 miles.

They have had the ULSD at the Chevron in town here for a few months and when
it was brought in, the price jumped accordingly. People whine, but I think
they don't understand why the price went up. They all just want the same
low price their local supermarket diesel pump gives them.

~Brian

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

I've read that about the ULSD not being enough to pass emissions
effictively. Apparently, when new vehicles meet 2007 emissions, they are
supposed to have some sort of device to spray urea into the exhaust system
to reduce the NOx before it reaches the catalyst. And I remember reading it
will run at about 1 gallon of urea to every 10 gallons of diesel burned.
Sounds like fun times to me. (-; Of course, the urea system is still up in
the air, and they may figure how to get a NOx absorbing catalyst to work
instead, but so far even with ULSD the absorber is poisoned by the sulfer in
some 2,000 miles.

They have had the ULSD at the Chevron in town here for a few months and when
it was brought in, the price jumped accordingly. People whine, but I think
they don't understand why the price went up. They all just want the same
low price their local supermarket diesel pump gives them.

~Brian

Very interesting -- thanks!

Is ULSD at the same level as what is currently used in Europe? As of
October 15th, will there be anything to prevent the newer diesel
automobiles currently used in Europe from being used in (most of) the
U.S.?

Also, I believe I read somewhere that even ULSD cars won't pass
California's super-strict emissions tests. Is that correct?

Are they really gonna sell urea by the gallon to the same public that
can get pool chlorine? Sounds like a recipe for explosive disaster.

Carl

 

[Nick Danger]

If diesel catches on in this country, what will stop people from putting
heating oil in their cars? It's essentially the same substance, but it isn't
taxed nearly as much and it's illegal to use it in motor vehicles. IIRC,
they add some sort of dye to heating oil so they can tell who's been putting
it in their fuel tank. This probably works fairly well with trucks, since
they can do spot checks at places like weigh stations. But for the average
consumer in the northeast, where heating oil is very common, it would seem
that there's very little that anyone can do to keep him from dipping into
his heating oil tank. Even if he did get caught, he could argue that his
wife brought the car home last night with the needle sitting right on empty
and he just needed the fuel to get to the next gas station.

 

[M.J.]

If diesel catches on in this country, what will stop people from putting
heating oil in their cars? It's essentially the same substance, but it
isn't taxed nearly as much and it's illegal to use it in motor vehicles.
IIRC, they add some sort of dye to heating oil so they can tell who's been
putting it in their fuel tank. This probably works fairly well with
trucks, since they can do spot checks at places like weigh stations. But
for the average consumer in the northeast, where heating oil is very
common, it would seem that there's very little that anyone can do to keep
him from dipping into his heating oil tank. Even if he did get caught, he
could argue that his wife brought the car home last night with the needle
sitting right on empty and he just needed the fuel to get to the next gas
station.

Maybe that is one of the reasons why diesel was not widely
promoted in US (?).

Now that low sulphur diesel will be required for newer diesel
cars not many people would want to foul or ruin their sensitive
emissions system by putting in heating oil, right? Unless the
heating oil is also some low sulphur formula.

M.J.

 

[Ken Finney]

Maybe that is one of the reasons why diesel was not widely
promoted in US (?).

Now that low sulphur diesel will be required for newer diesel
cars not many people would want to foul or ruin their sensitive
emissions system by putting in heating oil, right? Unless the
heating oil is also some low sulphur formula.

Bingo! Use heating oil, fail emission tests, spend big $$ to repair. On
the other hand, biodiesel (including home made) won't bother the emission
controls at all.

 

[bigjim]

Hopefully they make the 4 door wrangler with diesel-- I'll ditch my
oitback in a minute

 

[bigjim]

Who really checks inside your fuel tank? Siphon the heating oil if its
cheaper.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Also, I believe I read somewhere that even ULSD cars won't pass
California's super-strict emissions tests. Is that correct?

Hi,

Can't answer that for sure, but as a California resident, I've been told
by diesel owners they currently don't have to go thru emissions testing.
That may change now with more emissions equipment on the engines...
California seldom misses a beat at taking our money to fulfill some new
testing requirement!

Rick

 

[GT]

If diesel catches on in this country, what will stop people from putting
heating oil in their cars? It's essentially the same substance, but it
isn't taxed nearly as much and it's illegal to use it in motor vehicles.
IIRC, they add some sort of dye to heating oil so they can tell who's been
putting it in their fuel tank. This probably works fairly well with
trucks, since they can do spot checks at places like weigh stations. But
for the average consumer in the northeast, where heating oil is very
common, it would seem that there's very little that anyone can do to keep
him from dipping into his heating oil tank. Even if he did get caught, he
could argue that his wife brought the car home last night with the needle
sitting right on empty and he just needed the fuel to get to the next gas
station.

Regarding illegal use of heating oil, here in Switzerland you get a small
fine the first time you get caught, but they check you again after a while,
and if you get caught you just pay the double of what you could have saved
by cheating in the previous 5 years. If it's a business with trucks, it
might go bankrupt.
Regards.
--
G. Tarantino - Switzerland
2001 Audi A4 3.0 Q 177,000 km (110,000 miles)
2001 BMW 325 xi 165,000 km (100,000 miles)
1997 BMW 535 257,000 km (160,000 miles) (sold)
1997 Audi A4 Q 247,000 km (153,000 miles) (sold)

 

[Jim Stewart]

If diesel catches on in this country, what will stop people from putting
heating oil in their cars? It's essentially the same substance, but it isn't
taxed nearly as much and it's illegal to use it in motor vehicles. IIRC,
they add some sort of dye to heating oil so they can tell who's been putting
it in their fuel tank. This probably works fairly well with trucks, since
they can do spot checks at places like weigh stations. But for the average
consumer in the northeast, where heating oil is very common, it would seem
that there's very little that anyone can do to keep him from dipping into
his heating oil tank. Even if he did get caught, he could argue that his
wife brought the car home last night with the needle sitting right on empty
and he just needed the fuel to get to the next gas station.

Well, it's a dirty little secret but it's not
a coincidence that many farmers drive diesel
cars and trucks and aren't particularly careful
to keep the untaxed ag-diesel separate from
the taxed road-diesel.

 

[JD]

Well, it's a dirty little secret but it's not
a coincidence that many farmers drive diesel
cars and trucks and aren't particularly careful
to keep the untaxed ag-diesel separate from
the taxed road-diesel.

Furnace oil is also dyed. Here in Canada, any mechanic shop detecting the
orange dye in the vehicle is required to report it.