Should I repair my trade-in?

[Phil Marshall]

Hi: We have a 1997 Legacy Outback. It has been parked for the past few
months due to problems with it overheating. ( I start it & let it idle for 10
minutes every few weeks.)

It needs to have the knock sensor, water pump, timing belt replaced.
Estimate from Suby dealer is $1,063

I want to use this as a trade-in for a GM/ Saturn vehicle. Which would bring
me the best return - trade it in 'As is' or fix it first? And no, I don't want to
the Private Party route, too much hassle.

Thanks, Phil

 

[Remco]

Hi: We have a 1997 Legacy Outback. It has been parked for the past few
months due to problems with it overheating. ( I start it & let it idle for 10
minutes every few weeks.)

It needs to have the knock sensor, water pump, timing belt replaced.
Estimate from Suby dealer is $1,063

I want to use this as a trade-in for a GM/ Saturn vehicle. Which would bring
me the best return - trade it in 'As is' or fix it first? And no, I don't want to
the Private Party route, too much hassle.

Depending on how handy you are, replacing the water pump and timing
belt is hard work but not super difficult, nor ridiculously expensive
($80 pump, $40 belt). It is probably 2-3 hours work with the engine in
the car. The radiator may have to come out to give you some elbow room
but that's not a huge deal.

Are you sure that after you replace those items the car will be in good
running condition? If so, it is like sticking money in your pocket for
a couple of hours work.

Remco

 

[Phil Marshall]

Depending on how handy you are, replacing the water pump and timing
belt is hard work but not super difficult, nor ridiculously expensive
($80 pump, $40 belt). It is probably 2-3 hours work with the engine in
the car. The radiator may have to come out to give you some elbow room
but that's not a huge deal

Remco

Here is a quote from the dealers estimate. Sounds like a lot more than 2-3
hours work is required. I'm handy enough to do the simple stuff, but repairs
that require extensive work or special tools/equipment are beyond my comfort
level. (Caps in quote are dealers.)

"BECAUSE YOUR VEHICLE HAS DUEL OVERHEAD CAMS THE LABOR IS MUCH
MORE DUE TO TAKING ENGINE APART TO GET TO WATER PUMP. THE PRICE
FOR THE WATER PUMP IS $107.06 AND 630.00 FOR LABOR.

 

[Edward Hayes]

I replaced the timing belt & water pump using oem parts for about 200
dollars and 2-3 hours work. The radiator & fans must come out (as a
unit) and the crankshaft pulley must be removed (130 ft/lbs torque
required). You must be able to lock the cams on a DOHC engine ( make
your own from wood). The water pump is easy (4-5 bolts straight in
bolts). Not a bad job if you've done any type of engine work
previously. Most Subaru dealers quoted me for a timing belt & water
pump replacement at 375-425 dollars so your dealer estimate is out of
line in my opinion.

 

[j]

For me, it would depend on how much I am being offered for the trade.
Would it be worth spending $1,063 in order to gain $1500 more in trade?

If it were me, it would have to make a pretty big difference in trade
value, as I'd be ready to be done with the old car, and not want to
devote the efforts to getting it fixed. Save your energy for the
process of buying the new car. That's just me, but it sounds like
you're ready to move on as well.

What's more, depending on how many miles are on your Outback, and based
on it's age, the dealer is more than likely going to just wholesale
your car anyway, meaning that the Saturn dealer probably won't fix it
either.

Bag the Outback and enjoy your new car. Honestly, I'm more concerned
that you want to buy a GM vehicle.

 

[LL Mr. Bean]

"BECAUSE YOUR VEHICLE HAS DUEL OVERHEAD CAMS THE LABOR IS MUCH
MORE DUE TO TAKING ENGINE APART TO GET TO WATER PUMP. THE PRICE
FOR THE WATER PUMP IS $107.06 AND 630.00 FOR LABOR.

"No wonder it runs roughly, it's got duelling overhad cams!"

<!snort>

 

[Remco]

I replaced the timing belt & water pump using oem parts for about 200
dollars and 2-3 hours work. The radiator & fans must come out (as a
unit) and the crankshaft pulley must be removed (130 ft/lbs torque
required). You must be able to lock the cams on a DOHC engine ( make
your own from wood). The water pump is easy (4-5 bolts straight in
bolts). Not a bad job if you've done any type of engine work
previously. Most Subaru dealers quoted me for a timing belt & water
pump replacement at 375-425 dollars so your dealer estimate is out of
line in my opinion.

Your engine is an EJ25 then? (the 2.5 liter engine).
Yes, it is quite different than the one I did. Can't imagine it being
that much more work as its belt is just longer, I think.

Here are some pictures of your engine:
http://www.staff.uaf.edu/fnjwt/subaru.html

Here's a picture of the belt with one of the pulleys being the water
pump (as Ed suggests: just a couple of bolts - it is not an integral
part of the engine in the sense that the whole thing has to come
apart).
http://www.staff.uaf.edu/fnjwt/images/subaru/P9190289_small.JPG

I believe the 2.5L engine is an interference engine so you would need
to be careful that it is indeed done right. Follow the procedure and
you'll be fine.

Remco

 

[Phil Marshall]

For me, it would depend on how much I am being offered for the trade.
Would it be worth spending $1,063 in order to gain $1500 more in trade?

If it were me, it would have to make a pretty big difference in trade
value, as I'd be ready to be done with the old car, and not want to
devote the efforts to getting it fixed. Save your energy for the
process of buying the new car. That's just me, but it sounds like
you're ready to move on as well.

What's more, depending on how many miles are on your Outback, and based
on it's age, the dealer is more than likely going to just wholesale
your car anyway, meaning that the Saturn dealer probably won't fix it
either.

Bag the Outback and enjoy your new car. Honestly, I'm more concerned
that you want to buy a GM vehicle.

You cracked me up with that one! As I get older (43 next month) the Saturn
experience (customers are important, really) becomes more important to me.
Just looking to be taken care of, and no hassles to deal with.
I'm looking at the Saturn Vue, with the 6cyl Honda 250 HP engine. Great overall
reviews there...

Thanks, Phil

 

[Sheldon]

You cracked me up with that one! As I get older (43 next month) the
Saturn
experience (customers are important, really) becomes more important to me.
Just looking to be taken care of, and no hassles to deal with.
I'm looking at the Saturn Vue, with the 6cyl Honda 250 HP engine. Great
overall
reviews there...

Thanks, Phil

If you're going to take it to a dealer and trade it in I wouldn't do
anything to it. The dealer probably has a set price they are willing to
give you, and used Outbacks vary quite a bit in price based on where you
live. Most knowledgeable buyers of Subarus will always ask when the timing
belt was changed.

BTW, replacing the water pump and timing belt is normal maintenance on a
Subaru, or just about any car with a timing belt. And the repair ain't
cheap. They always do them together because the labor is about the same for
either one by itself.

 

[flyfisher7]

A ten year old car can actually be a liability when buying a new car.
See what kind of deal you can get with no trade. It might surprise you.
No matter what condition your car is in, the dealer is just going to
wholesale it to an auction outfit. He may actually lose money on the
deal when all costs are considered. Just for giggles, take a look at
his used cars the next time you are there, and count the 1997 models
you see.

 

[j]

Some good friends of mine have a Vue that they've been quite happy
with. Maybe too happy...hmmm.

I'm with you on the customer experience of the car buying process.
Although, if it wasn't for my dealer, I wouldn't have anything to bitch
about.

Good luck!

Jason

 

[Blair Baucom]

When I was buying a car in 1989, the Saturn dealer did not want to give me
anything for my 1986 Accord LX-i. So I took it to a Ford dealer and got a
1989 Probe GT. The Saturn was cheaper when paying cash with no trade, but I
got the Probe for less money by the higher trade-in offer. Not sure if
Saturn still does this or not, then the big deal was the fixed pricing with
no haggle and it was not bad until a trade is thrown in to the mix.

Blair

 

[john]

Hi Phil,

Overheating on this year is always the headgaskets. I work on Subbys
and have seen and done many.

If yours is an Outback Limited I would be interested in buying it in
"as is" condition.

Good luck!

John Peake

 

[Phil Marshall]

Hi Phil,

Overheating on this year is always the headgaskets. I work on Subbys
and have seen and done many.

If yours is an Outback Limited I would be interested in buying it in
"as is" condition.

Good luck!

John Peake

No, it's not the 'Limited' model.

~~Phil~~