Mike said:
I have a '01 Forester with almost 100K miles. It's never had a wheel
alignment, but I just got my second set of new tires installed a few
days ago and now I'm noticing a very slight pull to the right. Tire
presure is the same all the way around. I scheduled an alignment at a
dealer I've done business with before, and they said it would take a
minimum of 2 hours. Should an alignment really take 2 hours?
A new tire can be out-of-round which means it can pull. It can also
cause shaking but, in my case, it happened only within a narrow speed
range (within a few miles per hour around 60 mph) which was noticeable
by placing one hand lightly atop the steering wheel.
The out-of-round tire can still appear dynamically balanced on the
technician's spin-balance machine. One tech noted that tires that
showed okay on a Coats balancer were found out-of-round on a Hunter
balancer. His trick was to use white chalk while the car was jacked up
and running in low gear so the tires would slowly rotate and watch for a
run-out of more than .090. I don't know the specifics but I think the
better tire balancing machine uses a force wheel against the tire that
actually puts a load on the wheel and tire during spinning to emulate
the load of the car on the assembly and reproduce road spinning weight.
This can check for bent wheels and out-of-spec tires.
I don't know how much round tolerance is allowed on new tires. I
suspect the first response you'll get is "it'll disappear with wear". I
had an out-of-round tire and wear didn't resolve the problem. Luckily I
had them write up their recommendation at the time so I wouldn't run
into a problem later in court if the out-of-round condition had me
taking legal action to replace all the new but now slightly worn tires.
All tire diameters must be the same with an all-wheel drive Subie.
After 2 months and still the pulling problem (and a slight vibration
that showed up a few miles per hour around 60mph), they had to replace
all 4 tires and all because they didn't want to replace the 1 bad up in
the beginning.
Note that my out-of-round problem wasn't because the profile of the tire
was a bit egg shaped. The crown wasn't perfect dead center.
Out-of-round tires must be replaced as I don't see wear occurring just
right to right-round the tire. In fact, from my readings, the symptoms
can get worse over time with road wear.
You said you never had an alignment and yet you are at 100K miles. You
got new tires but never mentioned if that included an alignment. In
fact, you mention this is your 2nd set of new tires which means you
never got an alignment when you got the 1st set of replacements. You're
deliberately skipping required maintenance or you're buying from an
extremely stupid tire shop. One, you're way too long in mileage not to
have done an alignment already. Two, when you put on new tires, you
MUST get an alignment. The shop should've already told you that unless
they were very familiar with you being a super skin flint. Unless
you're getting the cheapest tires they have, usually the alignment is
included in the price for a 4-tire replacement. Are you really sure
that you didn't get an alignment with the 1st and 2nd set of tire
replacements? I can't recall every replacing the tires without also
getting an alignment. I think the recommendation is every 20-30K miles
except I live in a winter/summer seasoned area and the packed ice on the
roads bouncing the car around and the spring-time pothole banging
usually means I have to align once per year (I only put around 15-18K on
the car in a year) about mid-year after there's been some decent pothole
repairs done. Yet if you end up skidding on ice, sand, or an emergency
turn and end up banging into a curb then it could be time for another
alignment and with spin check the banged wheel(s). So what does the car
manual tell you for the service interval on alignment?
The 2-hour appointment time is to give them slop for working on cars
before yours (could take longer than they expect) or having to do more
work (after you authorize it). The 2 hours isn't the time in their shop
time book on how much they charge you but rather your sitting time in
the customer waiting area. If they end up doing just a front-end
alignment then it's probably less than 20 minutes. If the rear end is
out of alignment, they'll probably ask you for permission before doing
anything and, if you say okay, that's going to take more work than the
front end. You always hope they don't have to do any adjustment on the
rear and that the current adjustment is within the specs. I don't know
much about it but from what I remember they can't really do much on the
rear end other than send you to a body shop. If they have to spin the
wheels (hopefully on a machine with a force arm to emulate a load)
because it's a tire problem rather than alignment that causes the pull
then it's probably another 5 minutes per wheel and 5 minutes to remove
and replace. Their price is likely fixed: you'll have to find out what
different rates they charge depending if its front-end only, all wheels,
and if it includes loaded balancing or it that's extra. Although the
cost is fixed, they give themself a lot of slop time to fit you in. You
could be in and out in under 20 minutes. You might not get out until
after 2 hours.
Have you ever gotten to see the doctor at the appointed time, or have
you instead been stuck in the waiting room for over half an hour to then
get excited to have your name called so you can then sit in an
inspection room for over another half an hour? You could be lucky and
be the only patient there that day to get in and out immediately. Don't
rely on that happening. Sometimes you can ask the shop if they're
really busy that day and try to schedule on a light day, or get the
first appointment in the morning (i.e., wait until a day when you can be
the first in the queue).
