Ripped off

R

Ryan

I have a pretty long story but for everyones sake I'm gonna sum it up really
quickly. I bought a 2002 Subaru Wrx on August 30th of this year. The car had
some modifications done to it so when I was purchasing it the warranty was
an issue to me. I asked them if the manufacturers warranty is still valid
after the mods they stated that it was. Now here I am less than 2 months
away and the check engine light is on and they will not replace the exhaust
temperature sensor (I had subaru diagnose it). They said that I need to
show them something in writing that says they agreed to fix any problems
even though the owner himself said directly to me that he would take care of
any problems I had. I already sent letters to the Attorney General and BBB.
The only warranty I have in writing from them is the 3 month 3000 mile
warranty on the powertrain which doesn't do me any good. Is there anything I
can do to get around this problem or make them pay for ripping me off.

Thanks..
Wrx Driver
 
I have a pretty long story but for everyones sake I'm gonna sum it up really
quickly. I bought a 2002 Subaru Wrx on August 30th of this year. The car had
some modifications done to it so when I was purchasing it the warranty was
an issue to me. I asked them if the manufacturers warranty is still valid
after the mods they stated that it was.

Who is "them", and is the statement in writing?

The first rule of car buying for me is that if it's not in writing, it
didn't get said.

Barry
 
Them is referring to the dealership who sold the car to me.

Was it a Subaru dealership, and was the response in writing?

If not, you've just paid some life tuition.

Barry
 
Ryan said:
I have a pretty long story but for everyones sake I'm gonna sum it up really
quickly. I bought a 2002 Subaru Wrx on August 30th of this year. The car had
some modifications done to it so when I was purchasing it the warranty was
an issue to me. I asked them

define "them" as it makes quite a bit of difference to your best
course of action. You mention a dealer and an individual previous
owner, and it's not clear to me from whom you bought the car and who
made the guarantee the warranty was okay with the mods in place.

If you took a car salesman's word on a warranty validity issue, I fear
that you've been had in a way that will be difficult to prove to
anyone. :-\ Shitty situation for sure. I feel bad for ya. :-(
 
Ryan said:
I have a pretty long story but for everyones sake I'm gonna sum it up really
quickly. I bought a 2002 Subaru Wrx on August 30th of this year. The car had
some modifications done to it so when I was purchasing it the warranty was
an issue to me. I asked them if the manufacturers warranty is still valid
after the mods they stated that it was. Now here I am less than 2 months
away and the check engine light is on and they will not replace the exhaust
temperature sensor (I had subaru diagnose it). They said that I need to
show them something in writing that says they agreed to fix any problems
even though the owner himself said directly to me that he would take care of
any problems I had. I already sent letters to the Attorney General and BBB.
The only warranty I have in writing from them is the 3 month 3000 mile
warranty on the powertrain which doesn't do me any good. Is there anything I
can do to get around this problem or make them pay for ripping me off.

On the warranty thing, in a he-said/she-said thing, you're screwed. But
what are the details of the problem? What are the mods?

Just a hunch, but a common mod on WRXs is to replace the uppipe with a
catless model, which oftentimes leaves the EGT sensor with no bung to plug
into, so people wire a resistor inline to prevent a CEL from being thrown.
The actual act of unplugging the EGT sensor causes no harm to the engine -
the car only uses it to be sure that EGTs don't get high enough to damage
the catalytic converter (which is no longer there). Obviously they won't
warranty this no matter what, because it's not subaru's fault. Just get
another resistor and wire it in again. You'll never have a problem with it.

The other possibility is that whatever modifications are done have nothing
to do with an EGT sensor problem (which, if the modifications do not include
a catless uppipe, is almost certain - there's no mod I can think of that
would affect the EGT sensor alone without causing other problems). In that
case, the law is on your side. The Magnusson-Moss warranty act states that
they cannot deny a warranty claim just because of the presence of
aftermarket parts - they have to show that the parts led to the failure.
 
Forget the AG and BBB and go directly to small claims court. You may not
win but you do not need a lawyer and cost will be minimal. Make sure you
have as many records as possible. If for example, you had made note on
verbal agreement, this could help.
Frank
 
Forget the AG and BBB and go directly to small claims court. You may not
win but you do not need a lawyer and cost will be minimal.

And in many states you have no means to collect.

Most small claims courts have no collection enforcement. You can win,
but you'll never see a dime if the loser doesn't want to pay.

Sad but true.

Barry
 
I have a pretty long story but for everyones sake I'm gonna sum it up really
quickly. I bought a 2002 Subaru Wrx on August 30th of this year. The car had
some modifications done to it so when I was purchasing it the warranty was
an issue to me. I asked them if the manufacturers warranty is still valid
after the mods they stated that it was.

Under the Federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act the factory warranty will
remain valid EXCEPT for any area in which an aftermarket (non-OEM)
part can be shown to cause the failure. In otherwords, an aftermarket
stereo doesn't have anything to do with the wheel bearings and thus
the wheel bearings would be covered if they failed. In your case, if
they put an aftermarket intake and exhaust and it screwed up the
sensors in that pathway they have grounds to deny your claim. The rest
of the warranty should still be good. The dealership itself has zero
control over the warranty but what they do NOT want is to do the work
then have the manufacturer deny the claim and then have to come back
after you for it. On the other hand, several dealerships will have
you pay for an "unwarrantable claim" then turn around and get
reimbursed by the warranty as well.

One other reason you will find many dealerships go out of their way to
deny it under warranty is the amount they get paid for the work.
Typically they are at a fixed rate of usually around 50% their
standard labor (if they charge $70 an hour they may get $35-40 an hour
from the manufacturer) and they also get ZERO mark-up on the parts
themselves. In otherwords, many don't make enough to justify the time
if they have more private work that does make money.

Stating a warranty is valid had best be in writing. If not, you don't
have anything to stand on. In fact, I'm betting you signed the
contract when you bought the car and somewhere on those original
sheets where you negotiated and definitely in the contract it stated
that ONLY WHAT IS IN WRITING IS AGREED UPON and somewhere in other
phrasing is that anything talked about is not relavent unless it is in
writing. In otherwords, by the sheets you signed, they can promise you
the moon but they are ONLY obligated for what you have agreed to in
writing. This is normal and on every contract I have ever seen in the
car business.
Now here I am less than 2 months
away and the check engine light is on and they will not replace the exhaust
temperature sensor (I had subaru diagnose it). They said that I need to
show them something in writing that says they agreed to fix any problems
even though the owner himself said directly to me that he would take care of
any problems I had. I already sent letters to the Attorney General and BBB.
The only warranty I have in writing from them is the 3 month 3000 mile
warranty on the powertrain which doesn't do me any good. Is there anything I
can do to get around this problem or make them pay for ripping me off.

In that case you have 3 months or 3000 miles if something happens to
the powertrain but this will likely exclude any normal wear parts,
including the clutch. In short, they are not ripping you off. You
just didn't get it in writing. If the shoe was on the other foot
everyone is happy to say "Oh, I'd take care of that if I were them"
and then they look at the deal and realize that it can often make the
difference of making any profit at all. Some are just greedy, most are
trying to make a living. I've been on both sides of it as a consumer
and as an auto sales professional for a few years and I have seen both
sides of the argument. At some point people it would be nice if there
was a compromise (maybe you buy the part they supply the labor?) and
be happy with that. Sometimes there just won't be a compromise.

If you have nothing in writing tthen the above may be the best (and
least expensive) option.

Btw, it's been my experiance (in sales and seeing them come back) that
you NEVER want to buy a car with modifications unless you know exactly
what they are, who did them, how well they were done, and if they are
exactly the same ones you would do yourself. Intake and exhaust? No
problem. Just make sure you know it's not one of the few cheap intakes
that tend to get water, dirt, etc. into the car (the more open Ice-Man
intakes in some of the Honda's that says "do not use in rain" for
instance...)
 
Ryan said:
I have a pretty long story but for everyones sake I'm gonna sum it up really

There's a saying, "If you think education's expensive, try ignorance."

I think you just took a very expensive class. IME, with cars, as with
real estate, if it's not on paper, it's not there. Think of it as the
old boot camp story when things are going bad, and the trainee
complains, "but my recruiter told me..." to which the DI replies, "do
you see your recruiter here?"

Sorry it happened, but now that it has, learn to avoid the problem next
time. In the meantime, you might want to pursue either a written and/or
implied warranty from the manufacturer of the "mod" parts. The fact that
the emissions system's involved MAY (not sure) give you a tiny bit of
grounds for redress due to Federal requirements concerning same.

Rick
 
Bonehenge said:
And in many states you have no means to collect.

Most small claims courts have no collection enforcement. You can win,
but you'll never see a dime if the loser doesn't want to pay.

You can usually put a lien on the flake's property.
 
The only warranty I have in writing from them is the 3 month 3000 mile
warranty on the powertrain which doesn't do me any good. Is there anything I
can do to get around this problem or make them pay for ripping me off.

Thanks..
Wrx Driver
If that is the only warranty you have in writing that is probably the
only warranty you will get. Dealers are notorious for saying anything
to make a sale and then mysteriously coming up with a case of amnesia
when you need service. My dealership told me as part of my new car
purchase I would get oil changes for $20.00 for the lfie of the car.
I asked him to put it in writing and his exact words were, "its'
something we do for all our new car owners." You can guess how many
$20 oil changes I have recieved. I do them all myself.
BlueSTi
"Scary-Fast"
 
BlueSTi:

Sorry to go off topic but there was a question posed top you that I haven't
seen your answer on.

Basically it is rumored that you wished you had bought a WRX instead of your
STi. Can you guide us potential buyers on your thoughts?

Thanks.
 
BlueSTi:

Sorry to go off topic but there was a question posed top you that I haven't
seen your answer on.

Basically it is rumored that you wished you had bought a WRX instead of your
STi. Can you guide us potential buyers on your thoughts?

Thanks.

I posted a response in the original thread. But, basically, the STi
is more car than I really need on a daily basis. Yes, it's fun, and
yes it's exciting. But now, I'd be willing to trade a few creature
comforts for power and handling. I just seems like a waste to use it
as a commuter vehicle.
BlueSTi
"Scary-Fast"
 
Ryan said:
I have a pretty long story but for everyones sake I'm gonna sum it up really
quickly. I bought a 2002 Subaru Wrx on August 30th of this year. The car had
some modifications done to it so when I was purchasing it the warranty was
an issue to me. I asked them if the manufacturers warranty is still valid
after the mods they stated that it was.

Whoever at Subaru Corporate or a Subaru Dealership told you that
the factory warranties would still be in force AFTER the car was
modified was BS'ing you.

Period.

NO AUTOMOBILE MANUFACTURER anywhere will
honor an OEM warranty on ANY car that has had it's
drivetrain or related systems modified.

CASE CLOSED.

I've been servicing cars for 20+ years and this a golden rule
in the service business. If it's NOT stock OEM hardware
it ain't covered.

Sorry pal, but I am afraid your SOL and
Subaru parts as a rule are VERY expensive.
 

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