Recirculate Auto A/C Default

[Don]

I have a 2003 OBW LL Bean with the auto climate control. Whenever I use the
"auto" setting when A/C is needed, it goes into the recirculate mode. Even
after driving for over 1/2 hour it does not switch over to the outside air
mode. The manual says that outside air setting is the default, and also not
to use the recirculate any longer than necessary as windows may fog. I also
do not like the significant extra noise of the fan when in the "recirculate"
mode. It also prevents me from using the "ECON" setting with outside air
since as soon as you touch any mode function the auto function goes off and
you cannot access the "econ" setting.

I complained to the dealer and they said that it was normal and they saw no
problem - that the book was wrong. I had them start a 2004 with the auto
system and it did the same thing. I called the Subaru 800 number and after
an operator went back to a tech two or three times after I finally got her
to understand what I was saying, she told me the tech said that the auto
setting defaulting to "recirculate" is normal and that ended the
conversation.

Has anyone else run into this problem and, if so, how did you get it
resolved? I don't know what else to do since the shop says it is normal and
I can't get past an operator at the Subaru National (USA) number.

Thank you in advance for any help.

 

[tcassette]

So "the book is wrong" is the dealer's expert diagnosis. I wonder what they
will say when you have a problem, like the damper is stuck in the recirc
position from constantly being in that postion, and you want it fixed under
warranty. They might try to claim you have operated it wrong because the
manual clearly warns about extended use of the recirc mode and notes the
default position. Obviously you can't be held responsible for problems
which occur when operating the car according to erroneous instructions. It
makes you wonder what else is wrong in the book?

You might suggest to SOA in an e-mail that they send out owner's manual
updates to everyone if the book is indeed wrong.

 

[Hallraker]

I have a 2003 OBW LL Bean with the auto climate control. Whenever I use the
"auto" setting when A/C is needed, it goes into the recirculate mode. Even
after driving for over 1/2 hour it does not switch over to the outside air
mode. The manual says that outside air setting is the default, and also not
to use the recirculate any longer than necessary as windows may fog. I also
do not like the significant extra noise of the fan when in the "recirculate"
mode. It also prevents me from using the "ECON" setting with outside air
since as soon as you touch any mode function the auto function goes off and
you cannot access the "econ" setting.

I complained to the dealer and they said that it was normal and they saw no
problem - that the book was wrong. I had them start a 2004 with the auto
system and it did the same thing. I called the Subaru 800 number and after
an operator went back to a tech two or three times after I finally got her
to understand what I was saying, she told me the tech said that the auto
setting defaulting to "recirculate" is normal and that ended the
conversation.

That doesn't sound right.

I don't have a new Subaru with automatic climate control, but I did once own
a vehicle with ACC, and I know it didn't work like that. Fogging the
windows should be the least of your worries, as using the recirc nonstop can
cause a buildup of carbon dioxide in the car. While I doubt anyone would
suffocate under these conditions (as the car is not 100% airtight) it will
cause you to become tired and although you may not fall asleep at the wheel,
the decreased awareness is dangerous.

I know this because I've experienced it firsthand, when my girlfriend bumped
the recirc button during a long trip. By the time we arrived, I was yawning
up a storm (and she was sound asleep) but we were both fully alert a few
minutes after leaving the vehicle. When we got back in, I noticed the
button was lit up, and realized that it had been on the entire time.

Personally, I wish they'd have timers on the recirc function anyway. You
only need to use it if you're trying to cool down the car fast or are
passing through a stinky area.

Sorry I can't help you further, but I'd keep on investigating. And until
then, keep a window cracked.

-Matt

 

[Nicolas Dore]

I have a 2003 OBW LL Bean with the auto climate control. Whenever I use the
"auto" setting when A/C is needed, it goes into the recirculate mode. Even
after driving for over 1/2 hour it does not switch over to the outside air
mode. The manual says that outside air setting is the default, and also not
to use the recirculate any longer than necessary as windows may fog. I also
do not like the significant extra noise of the fan when in the "recirculate"
mode. It also prevents me from using the "ECON" setting with outside air
since as soon as you touch any mode function the auto function goes off and
you cannot access the "econ" setting.

I complained to the dealer and they said that it was normal and they saw no
problem - that the book was wrong. I had them start a 2004 with the auto
system and it did the same thing. I called the Subaru 800 number and after
an operator went back to a tech two or three times after I finally got her
to understand what I was saying, she told me the tech said that the auto
setting defaulting to "recirculate" is normal and that ended the
conversation.

Has anyone else run into this problem and, if so, how did you get it
resolved? I don't know what else to do since the shop says it is normal and
I can't get past an operator at the Subaru National (USA) number.

Thank you in advance for any help.

Looked in the Legacy 2001 tech manual and the only information is
under the HVAC General Description and seems to indicate that the only
time Fresh is the default is when you are hetaing up the car,
otherwise the inlet is automatic...

2 AUTO switch A. AUTO switch "ON" a. AUTO switch display
illuminates.
B. Temp. control switch b.
18°C (65°F) (Max. Cold)
Outlet air ? Cool

Air flow ? HI (AUTO)

Outlet ? VENT

Inlet ? AUTO

Compressor ? AUTO


C. TEMP control switch c. Air and air outlet
is gradually set from mode change as follows:
18°C (65°F) to
Outlet air: cool ? hot
32°C (85°F).
Air flow: AUTO

Outlet: VENT ? BI-LEVEL ?
HEAT

Inlet: AUTO

D. Temp. control switch d. Outlet air ? Hot
32°C (85°F) (Max. Hot)
Air flow ? HI (AUTO)

Outlet ? HEAT

Inlet ? FRESH (AUTO)

Compressor ? AUTO

Hope this helps.

Nicolas

 

[Ken Gilbert]

I don't have a new Subaru with automatic climate control, but I did once own

a vehicle with ACC, and I know it didn't work like that. Fogging the
windows should be the least of your worries, as using the recirc nonstop can
cause a buildup of carbon dioxide in the car. While I doubt anyone would
suffocate under these conditions (as the car is not 100% airtight) it will
cause you to become tired and although you may not fall asleep at the wheel,
the decreased awareness is dangerous.

I know this because I've experienced it firsthand, when my girlfriend bumped
the recirc button during a long trip. By the time we arrived, I was yawning
up a storm (and she was sound asleep) but we were both fully alert a few
minutes after leaving the vehicle. When we got back in, I noticed the
button was lit up, and realized that it had been on the entire time.

do you REALLY think that automakers would create a climate control
system that was truly 100% recirc? thus opening pandora's box to
lawsuits from folks suffering oxygen deprivation??

perhaps your yawning was due to being tired? it is not surprising you
woke up after getting out of your car and walking around. that's why
they have rest stops on the highway!

jm2c
ken

 

[Alan]

I have a 2003 OBW LL Bean with the auto climate control. Whenever I use the
"auto" setting when A/C is needed, it goes into the recirculate mode. Even
after driving for over 1/2 hour it does not switch over to the outside air
mode. The manual says that outside air setting is the default, and also not
to use the recirculate any longer than necessary as windows may fog. I also
do not like the significant extra noise of the fan when in the "recirculate"
mode. It also prevents me from using the "ECON" setting with outside air
since as soon as you touch any mode function the auto function goes off and
you cannot access the "econ" setting.

I complained to the dealer and they said that it was normal and they saw no
problem - that the book was wrong. I had them start a 2004 with the auto
system and it did the same thing. I called the Subaru 800 number and after
an operator went back to a tech two or three times after I finally got her
to understand what I was saying, she told me the tech said that the auto
setting defaulting to "recirculate" is normal and that ended the
conversation.

Has anyone else run into this problem and, if so, how did you get it
resolved? I don't know what else to do since the shop says it is normal and
I can't get past an operator at the Subaru National (USA) number.

Thank you in advance for any help.

My 04 OBW LL Bean works the same way. I find it annoying also, as I would
never choose to use recirc air, even when it's hot out. When you first get
in the car on a hot day, the air outside is cooler, so why would I want to
use the hotter, inside air? By the time it cools down, it's fine to continue
to use outside air, so recirc is useless in a car with decent a/c. Anyway, I
just keep increasing the temp control 1 degree at a time until it switches
over to outside air. I eventually lower it again. But, they really need to
change the programming of this thing. It is one of the few things about the
car that I hate. The other things, BTW, are that you can't redirect the
windshield washer sprayers. Because of where they point, the bottom left
part of the driver's side windshield never gets wet, and just streaks.

 

[C. Brunner]

I have a 2003 OBW LL Bean with the auto climate control. Whenever I use the
"auto" setting when A/C is needed, it goes into the recirculate mode. Even
after driving for over 1/2 hour it does not switch over to the outside air
mode. The manual says that outside air setting is the default, and also not
to use the recirculate any longer than necessary as windows may fog....

That's strange. My 2003 OBW (H-6 3.0) defaults to the outside air
mode every time I turn on the A/C. That annoyed me, because sometimes
the outside air here in Alabama is extremely humid. Also, based on
information from owner's manuals of previous cars, I figured the
system was wasting energy by drawing in and cooling that hot, humid
outside air instead of recirculating the already-cooled air that was
in the cabin.

But, the information I found about *this* vehicle said the system
would draw in outside air to reduce fogging of the windows. AFAIK, it
never switches to recirculation mode by itself, and every time I
switch it (like when I'm following a diesel truck, or when I drive
past a pulp mill), it switches back when I turn off and re-start the
engine.

C. Brunner

 

[BBB]

There have been more than one report on this newsgroup of owner's
manuals not being updated to reflect changes in various features. Looks
like that might have happened here.

Both owner's manual and actual operation of my 2003 Forester is outside
air. Me - I prefer recirc most of the time unless it gets really foggy
inside, but as we've seen here it ends up being largely a matter of taste.

General view here and at other Subey sites is that the auto climate
control S**KS in just about every dimension.

 

[BoB]

That doesn't sound right.

I don't have a new Subaru with automatic climate control, but I did once own
a vehicle with ACC, and I know it didn't work like that. Fogging the
windows should be the least of your worries, as using the recirc nonstop can
cause a buildup of carbon dioxide in the car. While I doubt anyone would
suffocate under these conditions (as the car is not 100% airtight) it will
cause you to become tired and although you may not fall asleep at the wheel,
the decreased awareness is dangerous.

I know this because I've experienced it firsthand, when my girlfriend bumped
the recirc button during a long trip. By the time we arrived, I was yawning
up a storm (and she was sound asleep) but we were both fully alert a few
minutes after leaving the vehicle. When we got back in, I noticed the
button was lit up, and realized that it had been on the entire time.

I went from dry pavement on the freeway into a downpour once and my
windshield totally fogged up so fast I couldn't see a thing. Recirc
was accidentally on. Hitting the brakes was not an option as I didn't
know what was behind me. The wife made the recirc to circ change and
fired up the A/C while I drove with me head out in the rain to ensure I
stayed on the freeway. In fifty years of driving, I never experienced it
before. It had to be really cold rain on a really hot windshield that
did it.

I wouldn't buy 'the book is wrong' for a minute. Requesting the phone
number for the regional manager can get quick results sometimes but
only if SOA knows what the fix is. From the comments I've been seeing,
I wouldn't touch Suby's climate control with a ten foot pole, and I've
driven Suby's exclusively since '90.

Personally, I wish they'd have timers on the recirc function anyway. You
only need to use it if you're trying to cool down the car fast or are
passing through a stinky area.

Sorry I can't help you further, but I'd keep on investigating. And until
then, keep a window cracked.

-Matt

BoB

 

[Xtranet]

in the car on a hot day, the air outside is cooler, so why would I want to

use the hotter, inside air? By the time it cools down, it's fine to continue

Well, is it a sunny/cool day or is it a sunny/hot day? If it's a sunny/cool
day I can understand. If it's sunny/hot (>90F) day, then it's better to use
the recirc.

to use outside air, so recirc is useless in a car with decent a/c. Anyway, I
just keep increasing the temp control 1 degree at a time until it switches

Recirculate does 4 things (that I can think of now):

1. Speeds up cooling on those sunny/hot days. (A/C on)
2. Speeds up heating on those cloudy/cold days. (A/C off)
3. Removes interior moisture quicker, especially during defrost. (A/C on)
4. Saves you from breathing those fumes from smoke puking vehicles in front.

I like my recirculate button.

 

[Hallraker]

do you REALLY think that automakers would create a climate control
system that was truly 100% recirc? thus opening pandora's box to
lawsuits from folks suffering oxygen deprivation??

Considering the other stuff I've seen automakers do? Yes, it's fully within
the realm of possibility. Remember the Corvair and the Pinto? Those are
extreme examples from other automakers, but I try to keep those two vehicles
in mind when trying to fathom WHY something was done on a vehicle.

As I said before, the car isn't 100% airtight, so it won't completely lock
you out of fresh air, but mine does an absolutely excellent job of keeping
the smell out when I drive past places that smell. There are a few
locations around here (as with all cities) that will put a foul stench in
your vehicle that persists for miles, and simply turning off the fan and
rolling up the windows doesn't help as it leaks in through the vents which
still have a little air flowing through them. From what I've read, the
switch moves a plate which blocks the outside air intake completely, and
although I haven't seen the part in action I do know that it keeps the smell
out.

perhaps your yawning was due to being tired? it is not surprising you
woke up after getting out of your car and walking around. that's why
they have rest stops on the highway!

Tired? This was a couple years back, and although I've weaned myself off
the caffeine, in those days it was not uncommon for me to drink 2-3 POTS of
coffee a day. I'd be lying if I said I knew exactly how much I drank that
particular day, but it was during that era so it is very likely I was wired.


-Matt

 

[-rick-]

Tired? This was a couple years back, and although I've weaned myself off
the caffeine, in those days it was not uncommon for me to drink 2-3 POTS of
coffee a day.

Mind if I ask how long the headaches lasted?
-rick-

 

[Snowman]

I have a 2003 OBW LL Bean with the auto climate control. Whenever I use the
"auto" setting when A/C is needed, it goes into the recirculate mode. Even
after driving for over 1/2 hour it does not switch over to the outside air
mode. The manual says that outside air setting is the default, and also not
to use the recirculate any longer than necessary as windows may fog. I also
do not like the significant extra noise of the fan when in the "recirculate"
mode. It also prevents me from using the "ECON" setting with outside air
since as soon as you touch any mode function the auto function goes off and
you cannot access the "econ" setting.

I complained to the dealer and they said that it was normal and they saw no
problem - that the book was wrong. I had them start a 2004 with the auto
system and it did the same thing. I called the Subaru 800 number and after
an operator went back to a tech two or three times after I finally got her
to understand what I was saying, she told me the tech said that the auto
setting defaulting to "recirculate" is normal and that ended the
conversation.

Has anyone else run into this problem and, if so, how did you get it
resolved? I don't know what else to do since the shop says it is normal and
I can't get past an operator at the Subaru National (USA) number.

Thank you in advance for any help.

My FXT 2004 default to reciculate, but after all the car gets cold
(20/30 minutes drive) it go to normal.

 

[Greg]

It looks like enough people have responded but here's my 2 cents. My 04 OBW
defaults to whatever position it was left in when the car was shut down.

Also regarding the post about the econ setting I found that mine is still in
econ mode even though with recirc on it does not display econ. It goes out
of econ mode if I press the auto or a/c button. This was an unscientific
test performed by noting the 1 to 2 mpg increase in fuel mileage when I use
econ.

 

[Adam Helberg]

I have a 2003 OBW LL Bean with the auto climate control. Whenever I use the
"auto" setting when A/C is needed, it goes into the recirculate mode. Even
after driving for over 1/2 hour it does not switch over to the outside air
mode. The manual says that outside air setting is the default, and also not
to use the recirculate any longer than necessary as windows may fog. I also
do not like the significant extra noise of the fan when in the "recirculate"
mode. It also prevents me from using the "ECON" setting with outside air
since as soon as you touch any mode function the auto function goes off and
you cannot access the "econ" setting.

I complained to the dealer and they said that it was normal and they saw no
problem - that the book was wrong. I had them start a 2004 with the auto
system and it did the same thing. I called the Subaru 800 number and after
an operator went back to a tech two or three times after I finally got her
to understand what I was saying, she told me the tech said that the auto
setting defaulting to "recirculate" is normal and that ended the
conversation.

Has anyone else run into this problem and, if so, how did you get it
resolved? I don't know what else to do since the shop says it is normal and
I can't get past an operator at the Subaru National (USA) number.

Thank you in advance for any help.

You can email the question to Subaru. When asking the question I would leave it open
ended and not provide the answer. Just ask what should the default setting be. If
they say it's outside air, then demand they fix it.

Adam