QUESTION - Need some 'vocabulary' regarding my tranny...

[BD]

Hey, all.

I'm seeing a symptom with my 02 WRX wagon which kind of bugs me, and I
don't really know how to explain it intelligently. So I'll explain it
anecdotally.

Right - so I'm sitting idle at a stop sign, waiting for the light to
turn green. It turns green.

I then...

-put in the clutch
-pop into 1st
-let out the clutch, and take off. All's well.

Now: it's at the point when I actually move the shifter into gear where
my question arises. There is usually some resistance felt, until the
tranny slows down once I've engaged the clutch. Once the tranny spins
down, the shifter slides nicely into place.

But SOMETIMES, I am finding, this 'resistance' simply is not there, or
is not as strong as is usually is. The shifter blasts right into gear
with the same amount of force applied to the shifter as normal, and the
gears smack into each other while the tranny is still spinning down.
NOT what I want.

I have seen this behavior when taking off from a stop, when taking off
from pulling out of a parking spot in reverse, and when gearing down
from second to come to a stop.

I have brought this topic up before in the context of gearing down from
second, and the resulting discussions about double-clutching were
valuable. But this is a little different.

I'm pretty sure I'm consistent about how quickly I put the shifter in
after engaging the clutch, but it's possible that I rush it slightly.

I never had this problem with my previous car (91 Toyota Tercel).

Is this a behaviour issue on my part, meaning I just have to be more
careful and make sure I wait for the tranny to spin down at all times?
Or could something be amiss or 'becoming' amiss with the car? Seems to
me that this 'detente' or 'resistance' in the shifter before going into
gear is a Good Thing, and should Always Work the Same.

Thanks!

BD

 

[AS]

It seems as if your synchronizer ring(s) are worn out.

 

[Michael Pardee]

Hey, all.

I'm seeing a symptom with my 02 WRX wagon which kind of bugs me, and I
don't really know how to explain it intelligently. So I'll explain it
anecdotally.

Right - so I'm sitting idle at a stop sign, waiting for the light to
turn green. It turns green.

I then...

-put in the clutch
-pop into 1st
-let out the clutch, and take off. All's well.

Now: it's at the point when I actually move the shifter into gear where
my question arises. There is usually some resistance felt, until the
tranny slows down once I've engaged the clutch. Once the tranny spins
down, the shifter slides nicely into place.

But SOMETIMES, I am finding, this 'resistance' simply is not there, or
is not as strong as is usually is. The shifter blasts right into gear
with the same amount of force applied to the shifter as normal, and the
gears smack into each other while the tranny is still spinning down.
NOT what I want.

I have seen this behavior when taking off from a stop, when taking off
from pulling out of a parking spot in reverse, and when gearing down
from second to come to a stop.

I have brought this topic up before in the context of gearing down from
second, and the resulting discussions about double-clutching were
valuable. But this is a little different.

I'm pretty sure I'm consistent about how quickly I put the shifter in
after engaging the clutch, but it's possible that I rush it slightly.

I never had this problem with my previous car (91 Toyota Tercel).

Is this a behaviour issue on my part, meaning I just have to be more
careful and make sure I wait for the tranny to spin down at all times?
Or could something be amiss or 'becoming' amiss with the car? Seems to
me that this 'detente' or 'resistance' in the shifter before going into
gear is a Good Thing, and should Always Work the Same.

Thanks!

BD

The term you are looking for is what I've always heard called "beating the
synchros" and the underlying effect is usually called "weak synchros." It
really is a friction effect which is often a combination of wear from
applying too much force in shifting (shows up mostly on second gear) and
maybe less than ideal tranny lube. I haven't had a lot of experience with a
variety of lubes, but many people here have.

Mike

 

[BD]

beating the synchros

Thanks, Mike.

Done some further digging, and apparently this is a sore spot for many
owners. Seems my problem is not unique at all. Some have remedied it
with getting the synchros replaced, and others have found some help
with Red Line Synthetic fluid.

I think that my best strategy will be to try to 'engineer' a scenario
in which I can replicate the problem, and then take it in to the dealer.

 

[Mike]

Mine got worse when i changed to redline a couple weeks ago. I had no
problem with the first gear thing before the change, i did get a crunch
going 3>4 when shifting at high RPMs, but i just learned to hold the clutch
in for a sec or 2 instead of trying to fast shift and it wouldn't crunch.
Now the 2>1 is really bad, and the crunch 3>4 is worse. I used the RL 75W/90
NS. I dont know what was in it before. But I'm going to change it to some
dino 75W/90 and hopefully it will go back to the way it was.

 

[BD]

i just learned to hold the clutch in for a sec or 2 instead of trying to fast shift and it wouldn't crunch.

This seems to be key.

Have you talked to any shops/dealers about this? Are you still under
warranty? What's your take on your driving habits: are you generally
really aggressive?

 

[Mike]

No, haven't talked to a shop or dealer, still under warrenty. I drive
aggresive sometimes but not that much. Guess I never brought it to a shop
cause so many others have the same issue, some even told me they do that
right off the lot brand new. I did put some regular valvoline 75w/90 in it,
the 2>1 is normal now. 3>4 still crunches at high loads.


fast shift and it wouldn't crunch.

 

[BD]

i just learned to hold the clutch in for a sec or 2 instead of trying
to fast shift and it wouldn't crunch.

Viable option, to be sure - but, especially going into first, I don't
always 'think', and sometimes just fire it in. ;-(

 

[Mike]

I did something today with some advise from my local WRX club. I picked up
some GM/Penzoil syncromesh from Auto Zone, mixed about a 1/2 qt in it.
Amazing ! No grind or crunch even when fast shifting 3>4 from 6,000 rpm. No
change change at first. Parked it, went back out later and I guess it took
abit to get mixed up... but what a difference now !

 

[Michael Pardee]

I did something today with some advise from my local WRX club. I picked up
some GM/Penzoil syncromesh from Auto Zone, mixed about a 1/2 qt in it.
Amazing ! No grind or crunch even when fast shifting 3>4 from 6,000 rpm.
No
change change at first. Parked it, went back out later and I guess it took
abit to get mixed up... but what a difference now !

Thanks for the info. I'm sure it will come in handy for others.

Mike

 

[BD]

mixed about a 1/2 qt in it

This may be a dopey question (I have a lot of those), but is there a
danger of 'overfilling' the tranny by adding such stuff, assuming you
already have a correct amount of fluid in there?

 

[Michael Pardee]

This may be a dopey question (I have a lot of those), but is there a
danger of 'overfilling' the tranny by adding such stuff, assuming you
already have a correct amount of fluid in there?

Normally not. Gearbox fills are typically done by funneling lube in a hole
in the side of the box. When it is full the stuff runs out, which announces
it is full. (A lot like feeding a baby, no?)

Mike

 

[Mike]

I drained some first, then added it to the proper level. The WRX fill hole
is the dipstick tube.Its got a yellow handle, it's under the left
(passenger) side of the intercooler and right of the turbo. Need a funnel
with a long tube or flexiable nozzel. Just a disclaimer, syncromesh is not
the proper weight or GL rated oil for the subaru trans. And i wouldn't mix
more then a QT in if 1/2 doesnt work.It did take awhile before i noticed the
difference so give it a few miles. I'm guessing the syncromesh must add some
friction to make the syncros work better.Some of these guys are mixing 3
different types of oil, i wouldn't go that far. So do it at your own risk.
But the difference is night and day.

 

[John Murfet]

You're on the right track with the thinner oil. Some rally and circuit
racers use 100% auto transmission fluid in manual boxes to get faster
changes and less resistance (bit noisy though).