Oil Analysis Results - follow up to "Break-In Oil"

[y_p_w]

OK-

Just got the oil analysis results for my 2004 WRX back from Blackstone
Labs. Just to recap, I performed my first oil change at 3000 miles,
and saved a sample to have analyzed.

The averages for a 2004 WRX seem to be exactly the numbers I have. I'm
guessing that mine is the only one they've received a sample from so
far. They do have "universal" averages, which I have in parentheses.
I assume all numbers refer to parts per million (ppm).

ALUMINUM 4 (4)
CHROMIUM 2 (1)
IRON 30 (8)
COPPER 45 (5)
LEAD 8 (2)
TIN 2 (1)
MOLYBDENUM 894 (78)
BORON 148 (101)
SILICON 80 (7)
SODIUM 6 (7)
CALCIUM 1775 (2559)
MAGNESIUM 10 (153)
PHOSPHORUS 822 (797)
ZINC 989 (931)

So - as Edward Hayes suggested, there appears to be a very high level
of moly, whether it was a paste applied to the parts or an oil additive/
ingredient. I believe calcium is part of the detergent package. The
phosphorous/zinc levels (ZDDP anti-wear additive?) seem to be close to
normal averages. I asked Blackstone what the original oil weight was.

I got these comments:

"High wear and silicon are both common finds in oil samples from new
engines. The wear is high due to break-in of new parts, while silicon
is from sealers and sand-casted parts. Universal averages show typical
wear metals for an oil from this type engine after 4400 miles use. We
suspect your engine will look that good or better in two or three more
oil changes. This was 5W/30 engine oil with no moisture or anti-freeze
present. Check back to establish solid wear trends. Everything will
look better next time around."

 

[Al]

OK-

Just got the oil analysis results for my 2004 WRX back from Blackstone
Labs. Just to recap, I performed my first oil change at 3000 miles,
and saved a sample to have analyzed.

The averages for a 2004 WRX seem to be exactly the numbers I have. I'm
guessing that mine is the only one they've received a sample from so
far. They do have "universal" averages, which I have in parentheses.
I assume all numbers refer to parts per million (ppm).

ALUMINUM 4 (4)
CHROMIUM 2 (1)
IRON 30 (8)
COPPER 45 (5)
LEAD 8 (2)
TIN 2 (1)
MOLYBDENUM 894 (78)
BORON 148 (101)
SILICON 80 (7)
SODIUM 6 (7)
CALCIUM 1775 (2559)
MAGNESIUM 10 (153)
PHOSPHORUS 822 (797)
ZINC 989 (931)

So - as Edward Hayes suggested, there appears to be a very high level
of moly, whether it was a paste applied to the parts or an oil additive/
ingredient. I believe calcium is part of the detergent package. The
phosphorous/zinc levels (ZDDP anti-wear additive?) seem to be close to
normal averages. I asked Blackstone what the original oil weight was.

I got these comments:

"High wear and silicon are both common finds in oil samples from new
engines. The wear is high due to break-in of new parts, while silicon
is from sealers and sand-casted parts. Universal averages show typical
wear metals for an oil from this type engine after 4400 miles use. We
suspect your engine will look that good or better in two or three more
oil changes. This was 5W/30 engine oil with no moisture or anti-freeze
present. Check back to establish solid wear trends. Everything will
look better next time around."

Great information. How would an unused sample of the oil test out? I
suppose it's too late to get a sample of the same lot that was in your
engine prior to use.

Al

 

[John O]

What a waste of time and money

dont you think the factory knows what they are doing?

Some might say buying a WRX is a waste of money too. I happen to think this
was pretty interesting, especially since it didn't cost *me* a dime.

-John O

 

[Jim Stewart]

What a waste of time and money
dont you think the factory knows what they are doing?

The guy bought a WRX and he wants to know what's
going on with the oil. If it pleases him, it's
not a waste. How much do you spend on cable tv?

 

[y_p_w]

What a waste of time and money
dont you think the factory knows what they are doing?

I did it more out of curiosity. There seemed to be a varying
opinion of when to perform the first oil change. I wanted to
verify if there was a high amount of moly - as suggested by
several posters. I did my first oil change **exactly** at the
point recommended in the manual.

 

[y_p_w]

Some might say buying a WRX is a waste of money too. I happen to think this
was pretty interesting, especially since it didn't cost *me* a dime.

Yep - and for a lot of people, working on and finding out about their
cars is a hobby. What do you think keeps auto maintenance discussions
going?

 

[Are You Experienced]

What a waste of time and money
dont you think the factory knows what they are doing?

 

[Edward Hayes]

Right on ypw; This is the reason SOA engineers expressly don't want the
factory fill changed too early. Some on this post have even recommended the
first change at 500 miles. A total waste of good oil and probably to the
detriment of engine life since the factory appears to be adding additives or
coatings to some internal parts. Ed Hayes

 

[CompUser]

Yep - and for a lot of people, working on and finding out about their
cars is a hobby. What do you think keeps auto maintenance discussions
going?

Agreed...and many folks will probably spend that
much on beer in a month. BTW, what does this
cost, and where are you & "Blackstone" based--US,
UK, Oz?

steve

 

[Chris Phillipo]

What a waste of time and money
dont you think the factory knows what they are doing?

It doesn't cost much to get oil analyzed, if you have a car with known
head gasket issues it can save you money in the long run but giving you
prior warning to failure.

 

[y_p_w]

Agreed...and many folks will probably spend that
much on beer in a month. BTW, what does this
cost, and where are you & "Blackstone" based--US,
UK, Oz?

US $20 - and they're in Fort Wayne, Indiana. They're one of the better
known operations that will do analysis for individual vehicles. Most
oil analysis labs will only do work in volume. They also provided a
test kit for free. I could have theoretically kept it.

<http://www.blackstone-labs.com>

I've only had one other oil analysis - the sample was taken during a
AAA vehicle diagnostic in 1995. That was an additional $15, but it
would have been $20 without the diagnostic. They sent it off to a
place called Herguth Labs in Vallejo, CA. I also had a phone # to
call if I had questions. It looks like they've upped the price to
$22.50.

I remember seeing a prepaid oil analysis kit sold at AutoZone. Don't
recall the name of the company.

 

[CompUser]

@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
(e-mail address removed) says...

US $20 - and they're in Fort Wayne, Indiana. They're one of the better
known operations that will do analysis for individual vehicles. Most
oil analysis labs will only do work in volume. They also provided a
test kit for free. I could have theoretically kept it.

<http://www.blackstone-labs.com>

I've only had one other oil analysis - the sample was taken during a
AAA vehicle diagnostic in 1995. That was an additional $15, but it
would have been $20 without the diagnostic. They sent it off to a
place called Herguth Labs in Vallejo, CA. I also had a phone # to
call if I had questions. It looks like they've upped the price to
$22.50.

I remember seeing a prepaid oil analysis kit sold at AutoZone. Don't
recall the name of the company.

Thanks...interesting stuff!

Steve

 

[Rick Courtright]

Just got the oil analysis results for my 2004 WRX back from Blackstone

Hi,

Thanks for the report!

As for the numbers, I've never had oil analysis done on my engines, but
friends have. What the lab told you about numbers getting better with
time held true with their engines. An old time engineer told me you need
to do the analysis several times to set baselines for YOUR engine since
different oils, fuels and engines produce slight variations, hence the
"average" numbers.

Hope to see more "progress reports!"

Rick

 

[Rick Courtright]

What a waste of time and money
dont you think the factory knows what they are doing?

Hmmmm...

One gentleman spends $20 or so to give us all some interesting and
possibly useful info. Another probably spends a similar amount each
month for internet access so he can criticize. Where's the REAL waste of
money?

Rick

 

[bg]

If you are interested in used oil analysis, visit
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php and scroll down to "Used
Oil Analysis-Gas Engines". Lots of them there. Consensus there are Subarus
are pretty easy on oil...non-turbo anyways.

bg

 

[y_p_w]

y_p_w wrote:




Hi,

Thanks for the report!

As for the numbers, I've never had oil analysis done on my engines, but
friends have. What the lab told you about numbers getting better with
time held true with their engines. An old time engineer told me you need
to do the analysis several times to set baselines for YOUR engine since
different oils, fuels and engines produce slight variations, hence the
"average" numbers.

I dunno. I'm not planning on sending in any more samples until after
the engine is broken-in (maybe after 6K miles). I knew the wear metals
were going to be high. I just wanted to put to rest the whole break-in
issue. There's something different about the oil.

 

[Leon Li]

Now it makes me regret that I changed the oil too soon (1000 miles), the
moly content is high, do not know why subura says there is nothing special
about the factory oil (someone claimed he called Subaru and got the
infomation).

 

[Rick Courtright]

Now it makes me regret that I changed the oil too soon (1000 miles), the
moly content is high, do not know why subura says there is nothing special
about the factory oil (someone claimed he called Subaru and got the

Leon,

Ever hear the saying, "When you hear hoofbeats, think horses before
zebras?" The moly content being high COULD (not saying IS) be from
something as simple as the assembly lube used when the engine was built.
The stuff I've used for years is a MoS2 based "grease." Wouldn't take
much to skew the numbers on that first change. Just a thought... I doubt
you really hurt anything with the early change.

Rick

 

[BoB]

Leon,

Ever hear the saying, "When you hear hoofbeats, think horses before
zebras?" The moly content being high COULD (not saying IS) be from
something as simple as the assembly lube used when the engine was built.
The stuff I've used for years is a MoS2 based "grease." Wouldn't take
much to skew the numbers on that first change. Just a thought... I doubt
you really hurt anything with the early change.

Rick

An analysis isn't hard to influence. I remember the first hair
analysis I got over 30 years ago. I trimmed a hair sample with
nickel plated scissors, rather than stainless steel. Took a while
to realize why it indicated alarming levels of nickel. The 'next'
$20 I invested showed everything normal.

BoB

 

[y_p_w]

An analysis isn't hard to influence. I remember the first hair
analysis I got over 30 years ago. I trimmed a hair sample with
nickel plated scissors, rather than stainless steel. Took a while
to realize why it indicated alarming levels of nickel. The 'next'
$20 I invested showed everything normal.

Well - I thought about possibilty of contamination. I first
collected the oil in an empty bottle of Chevron 10W-30 motor
oil. I made sure there was only a minute residue of oil left
in the bottle. I really doubt it had anything to do with the
high moly level.

Still - I'm getting the feeling that the letter from SOA saying
that "a certain level of friction is necessary" was incorrect.
Their engineers may want the factory oil to stay in there, but
the SOA letter may not explain the real reason. I've seen a lot
of evidence that moly compounds are used as break-in additives.
One claim is that a high moly level in the oil reduces scuffing
(or "breaking off" of rough surfaces) and promotes a more graceful
deformation (or flattening). Instructions for aftermarket
performance cams recommend that a moly paste be added to the cam
lobes for break-in.

Would the sulfur in molybdenum disufide increase copper corrosion?
That COULD be a reason why high amounts of MoS2 might only be used
for break-in unless an engine is spec'ed without copper/brass/
bronze parts. I've heard the new 5W-20 oils for some Ford/Mazda/
Honda cars typically contain high MoS2 levels. Maybe the cars
they've approved for 5W-20 were engineered w/o copper components.