My idea of a Subaru Hybrid

[Steve Bukosky]

I have a Forester. I want a wagon type of hybrid. I'd like the
engine to be as efficient as possible when it is running so why not a
diesel?

Which is cheaper to recharge the batteries, the engine or plugging
into three cent per kilowatt electricity? If the electricity, I'd
like the option to not have the engine recharge the batteries if I
know my driving day will not exceed the battery charge.

I'd also like to disengage the AWD if it would save some fuel money.
After driving my 2002 Forester for a few years, I conclude that AWD is
95% marketing BS. I'd rather drive 2WD and be able to engage AWD if I
get in a traction situation. Full time AWD just makes the tow truck
need a longer cable to pull you out.

Subaru should know that if I were to buy a car today, it'd be a VW
wagon with the turbo diesel. The Ford escape isn't efficient enough,
but if the Prius came out as a wagon, I'd buy that.

 

[Grolsch]

Better check the reliability record and "owner satisfaction" on that VW, the
more you research, the less likely you'd by the VW. I agree with you on the
AWD tho.

 

[Ian Brown]

I agree with you on the AWD tho.

I disagree on the AWD! One of the main reasons that I bought my Forester
is that it has permanent AWD. Test driving RAV4s and CRVs I did not like
the way the front wheels will spin before the rear wheels kick in.
Ok that's mainly for putting your foot down in the wet with poor surfacing,
but that does sum up much of the driving conditions in England.

Ian.

 

[Dave - Dave.net.nz]

I'd also like to disengage the AWD if it would save some fuel money.
After driving my 2002 Forester for a few years, I conclude that AWD is
95% marketing BS. I'd rather drive 2WD and be able to engage AWD if I
get in a traction situation. Full time AWD just makes the tow truck
need a longer cable to pull you out.

Don't know what they do with the Subarus where you're from, but here the
4wd/AWD is oly engaged if there is a (faily major) difference between
front and rear wheel speed.

 

[Dave - Dave.net.nz]

I disagree on the AWD! One of the main reasons that I bought my Forester
is that it has permanent AWD. Test driving RAV4s and CRVs I did not like
the way the front wheels will spin before the rear wheels kick in.

video yourself in the mud when you put your foot down, the front spin
before they back do, it is just very good compared to the Rav4 and CRV.

 

[Tony Burns (permanent dismisser of Andy)]

Really!

 

[y_p_w]

I disagree on the AWD! One of the main reasons that I bought my Forester
is that it has permanent AWD. Test driving RAV4s and CRVs I did not like
the way the front wheels will spin before the rear wheels kick in.
Ok that's mainly for putting your foot down in the wet with poor surfacing,
but that does sum up much of the driving conditions in England.

The only place I've had problems with front wheel drive and the wheels
spinning is wet pavement and a painted crosswalk or line on the road.
On my 1995 Acura (Honda) Integra GS-R, the front wheels would spin
when they slipped on the paint, and would regain traction when off the
painted area.

As for the OP's original points....

The price of electricity varies a lot depending on location. Some
municipalities heavily subsidize electrical rates and would probably
rethink it if there were large draws of power used to charge cars.
In principle it's a good idea, but there's no easy way to gauge the
cost of charging a car, since electrical rate change so often.

A full-time AWD system is simpler and more reliable. It's a niche
market, and there are other cars that have part-time AWD.

The current VW TDI engine has some rather onerous maintenance
requirements. 2004+ TDI owners need to use a VW 505.01 compliant
motor oil which is not available at typical auto parts stores.
It's also $6/quart for the semi-synthetic versions, up to $9/
quart for the full-synthetic ones.

 

[y_p_w]

I have a Forester. I want a wagon type of hybrid. I'd like the
engine to be as efficient as possible when it is running so why not a
diesel?

Which is cheaper to recharge the batteries, the engine or plugging
into three cent per kilowatt electricity? If the electricity, I'd
like the option to not have the engine recharge the batteries if I
know my driving day will not exceed the battery charge.

I'd be interested in that 3 cents/kWh electricity. Here are the
current Pacific Gas & Electric rates:

<http://www.pge.com/rates/tariffs/ResElecCurrent.xls>

For standard residential, rates start at 11.34 cents/kWh and goes
up to 21.601 cents/kWh in "tiered" rates.

 

[Guy Macon]

The price of electricity varies a lot depending on location. Some
municipalities heavily subsidize electrical rates and would probably
rethink it if there were large draws of power used to charge cars.

Actually, they sometimes give the EV owners a *better* rate. The cost
per KW/Hr that a municipality pays for electricity can vary by as much
as a factor of a hundred between 3:30 AM and 5:30 PM, and some cities
give you a seperate charger outlet that shuts off during the afternoon
peak.

 

[Guy Macon]

I'd be interested in that 3 cents/kWh electricity. Here are the
current Pacific Gas & Electric rates:

<http://www.pge.com/rates/tariffs/ResElecCurrent.xls>

For standard residential, rates start at 11.34 cents/kWh and goes
up to 21.601 cents/kWh in "tiered" rates.

Electric cars charge at night, so it is only the off-peak rate that
is of interest. http://www.enerfaxdaily.com/ Is the place to find
out what electricity really costs. Today's costs are between 2.45
and 11.50 cents/kWh depending on where and when you want it.

That price is what companies like Pacific Gas & Electric buy it for;
needless to say they charge you more than that. To get those figures
look at http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/table5_6_a.html
where you can find 3.37 cents/kWh for industrial users in Kentucky,
6.1 cents/kWh for residential users in Idaho, and I would expect
off-peak rates to be lower than that. Hawaii, on the other hand,
charges 19.87 cents/kWh for residential users.

Also see http://www.corbinkentucky.us/low_utility_costs.htm

 

[Steve Bukosky]

The price of electricity varies a lot depending on location. Some
municipalities heavily subsidize electrical rates and would probably
rethink it if there were large draws of power used to charge cars.
In principle it's a good idea, but there's no easy way to gauge the
cost of charging a car, since electrical rate change so often.

Not really. I am well aquainted with electrical programs as I do heat
pump work among other HVAC things for a living. The electric utility
would love to have a bunch of cars recharging in off-peak times when
the turbines still have to run but little income is created. It's
sometimes called time of use rates.

 

[Steve Bukosky]

Don't know what they do with the Subarus where you're from, but here the
4wd/AWD is oly engaged if there is a (faily major) difference between
front and rear wheel speed.

Some years ago I had a friend with a GMC Jimmy. Where we worked there
was a steep hill and he seldom put it in 4WD unless he couldn't make
it up the hill. I asked why and he stated the philosophy about the
tow truck. In the last winter I got stuck twice with my Forester.
If I went in as far as 2WD would take me, I probably could have
engaged AWD and backed out of the situation.

 

[Steve Bukosky]

I'd be interested in that 3 cents/kWh electricity. Here are the
current Pacific Gas & Electric rates:

<http://www.pge.com/rates/tariffs/ResElecCurrent.xls>

For standard residential, rates start at 11.34 cents/kWh and goes
up to 21.601 cents/kWh in "tiered" rates.

Midwest coal fired powerplants with a time of use rate of either 3
cents or 7 cents KWH. Probably won't last long as new plants are
natural gas.

 

[Dave - Dave.net.nz]

Some years ago I had a friend with a GMC Jimmy. Where we worked there
was a steep hill and he seldom put it in 4WD unless he couldn't make
it up the hill. I asked why and he stated the philosophy about the
tow truck. In the last winter I got stuck twice with my Forester.
If I went in as far as 2WD would take me, I probably could have
engaged AWD and backed out of the situation.

I get what you mean.

 

[y_p_w]

Don't know what they do with the Subarus where you're from, but here the
4wd/AWD is oly engaged if there is a (faily major) difference between
front and rear wheel speed.

Not my manual-transmission 2004 US-spec WRX. Even the automatic
transmission versions are supposed to be something like a 60/40
split in normal driving.

 

[y_p_w]

Not really. I am well aquainted with electrical programs as I do heat
pump work among other HVAC things for a living. The electric utility
would love to have a bunch of cars recharging in off-peak times when
the turbines still have to run but little income is created. It's
sometimes called time of use rates.

However - it would be heavily dependent on the willingness of
electrical utilities to invest in new meters or monitoring
systems for time-of-day usage.

Certainly a plug-in hybrid would complicate things if you
needed to figure out cost with charging via the engine, peak
use electricity, and/or off-peak electricity.

 

[Dave - Dave.net.nz]

Not my manual-transmission 2004 US-spec WRX. Even the automatic
transmission versions are supposed to be something like a 60/40
split in normal driving.

ok then, weird...

 

[y_p_w]

ok then, weird...

Some of the earlier version sold in the US had a 90/10 split. The
following mentions it:

<http://www.autoworld.com/news/Subaru/Subaru_All-Wheel.htm>

Here's the 2005 US-spec WRX:

<http://www.subaru.com/shop/specific...=IMPREZA&trim=WRX_SEDAN&category=PERFORMANCE>

Continuous AWD: WRX models equipped with 5-speed manual transmission,
utilize a viscous-type limited-slip rear differential with torque
distribution normally configured at a 50/50-split front-to-rear. If
wheel speed differs between front and rear axles, the system helps
distribute power to the wheels with the most traction.

Variable Torque Distribution (VTD) All-Wheel Drive: WRX models,
equipped with 4-speed automatic transmission, utilize an electronically
controlled variable transfer clutch in conjunction with a viscous-type
limited-slip rear differential. Torque distribution is normally
configured at a performance-oriented rear-wheel-biased 45/55 split
front-to-rear. Sensors monitor parameters such as wheel slippage,
throttle position and braking to help determine torque distribution to
the wheels with optimum traction.

 

[Steve Bukosky]

However - it would be heavily dependent on the willingness of
electrical utilities to invest in new meters or monitoring
systems for time-of-day usage.

Unless you live in the boondocks, they already do. Read my message
again.

 

[Steve Bukosky]

Continuous AWD: WRX models equipped with 5-speed manual transmission,
utilize a viscous-type limited-slip rear differential with torque
distribution normally configured at a 50/50-split front-to-rear. If
wheel speed differs between front and rear axles, the system helps
distribute power to the wheels with the most traction.

Variable Torque Distribution (VTD) All-Wheel Drive: WRX models,
equipped with 4-speed automatic transmission, utilize an electronically
controlled variable transfer clutch in conjunction with a viscous-type
limited-slip rear differential. Torque distribution is normally
configured at a performance-oriented rear-wheel-biased 45/55 split
front-to-rear. Sensors monitor parameters such as wheel slippage,
throttle position and braking to help determine torque distribution to
the wheels with optimum traction.

Yeah, like I said 95% marketing BS. I don't fault Subaru for it, but
I have driven two winters in mine and say what they want, it isn't all
it is cracked up to be. Get that front pan up on snow and you better
have the tow truck's phone number or a passenger to help push the car
back!