Looking at a used Legacy, something doesn't seem right (Long, sorry)

[Rob Aries]

My '92 Legacy got into an accident so I'm looking to replace it. I
found a '95 Legacy L FWD at a dealer near me. It has an AT, power
windows, door locks, electric antenna and a moonroof.

The car is clean overall although there is one small dent on the left
front quarter-panel and a few scuffs/scrapes elsewhere. No evidence
(that I can see) of major body work and no rust (again, that I saw
during a brief inspection).

What I'm nervous about is that his price is fairly reasonable--$3500,
yet the car has only 60K on it!! The thing is, when I popped the hood
the engine looked a little "beat up" to me...nothing really obvious,
just the general appearance--also, one small part, just a metal clip
that holds a hose or something, was rusted.

When I drove the car, it handled nice, the brakes were good (the tires
look good too) and the suspension felt good. BUT...the engine sounded
like it was laboring a bit, and the pickup was not real good at all. My
old '92 with 133K on it seemed to have better acceleration than this
car! This could be my imagination...or maybe the 95s are heavier than
the earlier years (I know that 95 is the 1st year of the 2nd-gen
Legacys).

The Carfax check I did didn't turn up any obvious red flags...they
basically had not much info to give me except that it had been
registered in New Jersey in 2001. AAMOF Carfax offered to "certify" it
with their guarantee (which doesn't really look like such a great
bargain--they will give you "up to" 10% of the book value if something
bad comes up with the car that they didn't catch--and I'm sure there's
probably some fine print in there somewhere).

When I started asking questions, the dealer said he new NOTHING about
the car's maintenance history (or ANY kind of history for it), that he
sells these at a discount and lets the customer handle any work that
might be needed. Not exactly a confidence-builder!

(I did open the oil filler cap & look for "cream"--not there, it looked
OK, the oil itself looked like it was changed recently).

It's obvious this is going to need a timing belt pretty soon (what
dealer WOULDN'T know if a timing belt had just been done, it would be a
selling point and get him more $$), so that will probably be around
$750-1K. Still, the price is (almost suspiciously) cheap--I've searched
on cars.com and I see 95s and 96 Legacys with almost TWICE the miles
going for near $6K!!

Maybe I'm being paranoid, but any words of advice on how to proceed
would be great to hear. Are there any things I can look at that might
indicate that the odometer was rolled back? (One friend of mine said to
look at how worn the brake pedal was). We asked about taking the car
somewhere to get it checked out and he was OK with that, especially when
he found out the garage we wanted to take it to is one he does a lot of
business with. There's another "paranoia point" <g>. TIA for any/all
replies!

 

[Pete D]

If I had even one little doubt about a car there is no way I would buy it.
There will be others. The milage sounds bogus to me, I will say however that
my 98 OBW has 110k miles and my 1990 Suzuki Sierra has only 50k miles.

 

[Bob Bailin]

My '92 Legacy got into an accident so I'm looking to replace it. I
found a '95 Legacy L FWD at a dealer near me. It has an AT, power
windows, door locks, electric antenna and a moonroof.

The car is clean overall although there is one small dent on the left
front quarter-panel and a few scuffs/scrapes elsewhere. No evidence
(that I can see) of major body work and no rust (again, that I saw
during a brief inspection).

What I'm nervous about is that his price is fairly reasonable--$3500,
yet the car has only 60K on it!! The thing is, when I popped the hood
the engine looked a little "beat up" to me...nothing really obvious,
just the general appearance--also, one small part, just a metal clip
that holds a hose or something, was rusted.

When I drove the car, it handled nice, the brakes were good (the tires
look good too) and the suspension felt good. BUT...the engine sounded
like it was laboring a bit, and the pickup was not real good at all. My
old '92 with 133K on it seemed to have better acceleration than this
car! This could be my imagination...or maybe the 95s are heavier than
the earlier years (I know that 95 is the 1st year of the 2nd-gen
Legacys).

The Carfax check I did didn't turn up any obvious red flags...they
basically had not much info to give me except that it had been
registered in New Jersey in 2001. AAMOF Carfax offered to "certify" it
with their guarantee (which doesn't really look like such a great
bargain--they will give you "up to" 10% of the book value if something
bad comes up with the car that they didn't catch--and I'm sure there's
probably some fine print in there somewhere).

When I started asking questions, the dealer said he new NOTHING about
the car's maintenance history (or ANY kind of history for it), that he
sells these at a discount and lets the customer handle any work that
might be needed. Not exactly a confidence-builder!

(I did open the oil filler cap & look for "cream"--not there, it looked
OK, the oil itself looked like it was changed recently).

It's obvious this is going to need a timing belt pretty soon (what
dealer WOULDN'T know if a timing belt had just been done, it would be a
selling point and get him more $$), so that will probably be around
$750-1K. Still, the price is (almost suspiciously) cheap--I've searched
on cars.com and I see 95s and 96 Legacys with almost TWICE the miles
going for near $6K!!

Maybe I'm being paranoid, but any words of advice on how to proceed
would be great to hear. Are there any things I can look at that might
indicate that the odometer was rolled back? (One friend of mine said to
look at how worn the brake pedal was). We asked about taking the car
somewhere to get it checked out and he was OK with that, especially when
he found out the garage we wanted to take it to is one he does a lot of
business with. There's another "paranoia point" <g>. TIA for any/all
replies!

If you're in a state with an inspection program (emissions or mechanical)
you
can see if they have a record of the mileage readings at the last one(s).

You can check the condition of the front & rear CV boots (inner & outer).
The front ones should be due for a change real soon if the mileage is
a lot more than 60K. The rear ones should be ok as is.

Check the boots on the front calipers for damage.

Check the condition of the spark plugs. You may just need a new set.

Go to another Subaru dealer and ask them to punch in the VIN. I think
there's been at least one recall that should be recorded in their system.

Compare the wear on the driver's seat to that of the front passenger's.

Bob

 

[null]

The brake pedal is a good indicator. Take a close look at the other wear
points, armrest, steering wheel
radio buttons, carpet, dead pedal area, etc. Do they look like 60K or
160k. I don't know about the 95 but new cars store the
mileage in two places in the ECU and analog/digital display. If you wary
you could have the ECU checked
against what the odo reads. You mentioned you had a carfax report done,
have you considered trying
to contact the previous owner? Whenever I've bought a used car I always
find out who the previous owner
was and contact them.

As for the engine compartment a large percentage of owners neglect to keep
this area clean and as long
as it runs they don't care, which is why it appears dirty. It's easy to
clean the exterior and interior
up.

 

[Mike B.]

FLOOD ! ! Check the serial number for FLOOD title. Some states don't record
that from one state to another.

 

[Dominic Richens]

Sounds a bit fishy - you are not paranoid, you need to do due diligence. Two
things come to mind:

How do prices of other cars in the lot compare? What kind of "dealer" is
this? There are places around here that are little more than "car pawn
brokers". They'll give you 50% of the book value of your car if you need
fast cash and then sell it for only a little more, but "as is". The only
check they do is on the VIN to make sure it isn't stolen!

What you describe reminds me of a co-worker who inherited a car from his
mother. She had bought the car, drove it for a couple of years, then got
too sick to drive. She never sold the car because that would be admitting
she wasn't going to get better, so it sat in the driveway for 5 years until
she passed away. They took it to the dealership on a flat-bed and spent
$500 for fluid flush and something to do with the brakes rusting. That was
three years ago and they haven't had any problems with it (and it's a
Ford!!).

So, you ya feel lucky?

 

[Guest]

Does this dealer offer 60/90 days warranty? Try to ask them for "extended"
dealer warranty. When I bought my car, fealer has not squeezed price, but
gave me 6 monthes of waranty, which I used pretty well. Usually "fishy"
things show up within first or second month. So, with 90 days warranty you
should be covered.

And about price... Ask dealer how did they get this car. Auction? Trade-In?
Did they do anything with the car or it's the condition they got it? I know
sometimes dealers are getting cars from Police Auctions very cheap. It may
be "previously stolen car", "crime car", or car where somebody died. Many
people simply wont buy such car. It's just one example what it could be...

 

[J999w]

Go with your instincts, unless you're 'feeling lucky' like the previous poster
said.

:^]

Don't be afraid to walk ... there are plenty of good Subaru's out there looking
for a home.

jw
milwaukee

 

[Rob Aries]

I've told myself that. But, as I said, this could be my imagination &
paranoia over what I'm seeing as a more-than-fair price. I'm having the
car checked out by *my* mechanic tomorrow, and should have the real
scoop.

In the meantime, I keep checking cars.com for Legacys in my area
(actually a 100 mile radius!). Still haven't seen a deal close to this
one...and some pretty optimistic prices (for example, a '95 Legacy L
sedan FWD MT with 130K for $5600, and a '93 L FWD w/141K for $5000).

 

[Rob Aries]

Thanks everybody for your replies. I decided to take a chance and I got
the car. It seems fine but will probably need brake work pretty soon (I
feel a very slight pulsing, no metal sounds though). I had the car
checked out by a mechanic and he gave it the thumbs up. It was
definitely a "city car" and has numerous small dings on the body. That
may be why I got it at a steal--$3200 (this is a '95 Legacy L FWD AT
with power everything, moonroof and only 60K miles.) I did a Carfax on
it and it came up clean--for what that's worth.

I'm now thinking of how I'll dispose of my '92 Legacy (technical total).
I don't think I can part it out myself but it drives just fine and the
engine is solid.

I can't help comparing my new '95 to my previous '92 (and before that, a
'91 Legacy--the current one is my third!). The sheet metal on the '95
seems thinner--the trunk lid has way more flex than my '92. The doors
seem a lot lighter too. The Subaru "premium" sound system on my '91 &
'92 also sounded better than the "premium" system on this '95. The
interior on the '95 seems a little roomier (more back seat legroom).
The trunk is a little deeper but slightly narrower. I would say that it
appears that Subaru was trying to cut costs a bit here. I can only hope
that the mechanics are as reliable as the older one--although I hear
that the '92--'94 models are known for being the most reliable. I
suppose time will tell. But so far I'm happy that I got a Subie with
such low mileage for a good price.

 

[M. Butkus]

If carfax came back with nothing.. maybe just want to get rid of it. Flood
car, but Jersey has FLOOD TITLE. Does your state have FLOOD TITLE or do
they wipe them clean?

 

[FFF]

The timing belt won't cost you all that much (more like $300).

The prices on cars.com seem a bit out of this reality. The last few months have
been pretty rough for the used car market. It doesn't hurt to shop around some
more.

florian (also selling a 95 Legacy: http://staff.funnygarbage.com/subaru/)

 

[Rob Aries]

The Jersey title said nothing about a flood. The dealer I bought it
from said he got it at a wholesale auction in New Jersey, and that he
likes to turn cars around with a minimum of fuss--i.e., he's not the
type to spend any energy fixing it up. Says that he prefers setting the
price cheap and moving quantities of cars quickly. He certainly did
give me a deal (I think!): $3200 for this '95 Legacy with only 60K
miles, though it's FWD, auto, and the body is a little dinged up. I had
it checked by a mechanic who gave it a thumbs up while telling me it was
definitely a "city car."

I've had the car almost a month and it's doing fine although there are
some minor annoyances--the switch on the left rear door that turns on
the interior light is gone, and now the electric antenna isn't liking
the cold weather (I hear some gears grinding and it's not going up until
I switch the radio on & off a few times), etc. And of course there's my
thread here about the missing pull strap/latch for one of the fold-down
rear seat backs.

 

[Chauncey Gardener]

Sorry I missed the initial post, and didn't catch which year/model
Legacy you are talking about, but the timing belt on my 98 was around
$300.

 

[Rob Aries]

This is the second or third post claiming a timing belt should be
$300-$350. Do you guys live in the New York City area? I highly doubt
I can get it done for that around where I live.

My Legacy is a '95 L FWD sedan.

 

[Chauncey Gardener]

This is the second or third post claiming a timing belt should be
$300-$350. Do you guys live in the New York City area? I highly doubt
I can get it done for that around where I live.

I'm in Northern California. I suppose the crucial issue would be the
garage's shop rate. Mine charges $75/hour. They also use whatever
guide garages use to determine how many hours a particular job should
take.

While they had it open, I had them fix the oil leak that seems so
common in Legacies...