How to separate transmission from engine?

[Bob Throllop]

Hi all,

I'm trying to pull the transmission out of an '01 Legacy in my garage,
in order to replace the clutch. Well, after getting all the
surrounding accessories taken apart and disconnected, I took off the
bolts holding the trans. to the engine and tried to pull it out, and
it won't budge. I've spent most of this afternoon beating and prying
on it with various blunt instruments, to no avail.

It makes me wonder if there's one more bolt in there that I didn't
take out; although I've looked a thousand times it's rather dark under
there and my Haynes manual is very vague as to exactly how many bolts
there are and where located. I have taken out four long bolts and
removed four nuts from studs, for a total of 8 connections (including
where the starter mounts). If someone has a transmission case nearby,
or a better diagram than I have, can you tell me if that's all there
is holding it together?

One other thing--there are what appear to be a couple of iron pins
where the transmission bell housing meets the engine, about 1/2 inch
long. Does anyone know what these are, if they hold it together, why
the manual doesn't mention them and how to get them out?

Oh, almost forgot to mention--it's a manual transmission.

Thanks for any assistance.

Bob

 

[StephenW]

Hi all,

I'm trying to pull the transmission out of an '01 Legacy in my garage,
in order to replace the clutch. Well, after getting all the
surrounding accessories taken apart and disconnected, I took off the
bolts holding the trans. to the engine and tried to pull it out, and
it won't budge. I've spent most of this afternoon beating and prying
on it with various blunt instruments, to no avail.

It makes me wonder if there's one more bolt in there that I didn't
take out; although I've looked a thousand times it's rather dark under
there and my Haynes manual is very vague as to exactly how many bolts
there are and where located. I have taken out four long bolts and
removed four nuts from studs, for a total of 8 connections (including
where the starter mounts). If someone has a transmission case nearby,
or a better diagram than I have, can you tell me if that's all there
is holding it together?

One other thing--there are what appear to be a couple of iron pins
where the transmission bell housing meets the engine, about 1/2 inch
long. Does anyone know what these are, if they hold it together, why
the manual doesn't mention them and how to get them out?

Oh, almost forgot to mention--it's a manual transmission.

Thanks for any assistance.

Bob

8 sounds abour right, but can't be sure. The pins are guide pins, to alighn
the two together and could be froze. It sounds like it's just stuck.
Now for a big subaru trick, I don't know if haynes covers it. Once the trans
is unbolted from all mounts, let it "hang" and point down. Now get a piece
of wood and wedge it between the engine oil pan and the crossmember. If you
do not do this once the trans comes loose the engine will trist the wrong
way making instalation almost impossable.
If doing a clutch at home I choose to pull the engine; at work with a rack I
pull the trans.

Sorry I can't be of more help, I don't have a trans to look at here.


--
Steve
ASE Master Tech
L1 Diag
Currently residing at a Subaru Shop
4.5 years doing tires and alighnments

 

[AS]

It happened to me, the guide tubes were rusted and it was hard to split
them appart, but... make sure that the jack under the transmission is
not too high or too low (otherwise the tubes and clutch splines will
bind), and that the jack is under the center of gravity so it does not
tilt for or backwards.

Good luck!

 

[johninky]

Eight bolts is all of them. Don't remove those "iron pins". If one
or both come out, reinstall them. I always use a very thin but stiff
putty knife to begin to separate the 2 parts. Gently work around the
housing until a crack appears. Then move up to something larger like
a screwdriver. Don't get carried away with the hammer because this
stuff will break if you get too agressive with the hammer. When you
get around to installing the transmission, get 2 bolts the same size
as the bellhousing bolts about 5-6 inches long. Cut off the heads and
use them as guide pins. Makes aligning the input shaft and clutch so
much easier when working alone.

 

[.._..]

http://home.comcast.net/~skipnospam/Head_gasket_replacement_2.html

See about half way down for a description of what this guy did.

 

[S]

Hi Bob!

Thanks for any assistance.

I'll add to what johninky has posted:

Darn those pesky alignment pins ;-)

If you look around on top of the engine, you will find a couple spots
where you can use a small prybar to apply pressure between the engine
and bellhousing. Do so. Should be much easier once you get it started;
carefully work your prybar down along both sides. Be sure the tranny
is supported so as not to stress the input shaft once the locating
pins clear (~1/4 - 3/8 inch gap). Clean them up with some Scotchbrite
to ease reassembly.

I will add that you should be able to mate the engine and transmission
at least as far as the locating pins (again, 1/4 to 3/8 inch gap all
around) BY HAND. If you have to use a bolt to pull things together,
odds are you are gonna damage something; either the pilot bearing on
an MT, or the hydraulic pump on an AT. Having someone slowly turn the
output shafts (tranny must be in gear), or the engine crank, while you
mate the transmission will facilitate this.

ByeBye! S.
Steve Jernigan KG0MB
Laboratory Manager
Microelectronics Research
University of Colorado
(719) 262-3101

 

[Bob Throllop]

Hi Bob!



I'll add to what johninky has posted:

Darn those pesky alignment pins ;-)

If you look around on top of the engine, you will find a couple spots
where you can use a small prybar to apply pressure between the engine
and bellhousing. Do so. Should be much easier once you get it started;
carefully work your prybar down along both sides. Be sure the tranny
is supported so as not to stress the input shaft once the locating
pins clear (~1/4 - 3/8 inch gap). Clean them up with some Scotchbrite
to ease reassembly.

I will add that you should be able to mate the engine and transmission
at least as far as the locating pins (again, 1/4 to 3/8 inch gap all
around) BY HAND. If you have to use a bolt to pull things together,
odds are you are gonna damage something; either the pilot bearing on
an MT, or the hydraulic pump on an AT. Having someone slowly turn the
output shafts (tranny must be in gear), or the engine crank, while you
mate the transmission will facilitate this.

Hey, thanks to everybody that replied so far--I feel a little less
alone. I'm now 85% sure it's the guide pins that are frozen. If I
pry as hard as I can on the top of the case with a floor jack handle,
I see the smallest imaginable crack open up--about a thousandth of an
inch, then it snaps together again. So I have to figure out how to
get the guide pins unfroze.

Followup questions to think about while I'm letting the penetrating
oil soak in:

1. The guy who hit the bell housing with a breaker bar--is that
really safe? Can you break the transmission that way? I have a
homemade drift made of a floor jack handle with a piece of brass
attached to the end.

2. What about using a blowtorch around the pins? I've never used a
blowtorch on a car, so I don't know how effective they are or how
hazardous. Is it safe to use it in that spot?

3. What about hitting the iron pins with a hammer and punch? Are the
pins hard enough that I don't run a risk of spreading them?

 

[S]

Hi Bob!

Hey, thanks to everybody that replied so far--I feel a little less
alone. I'm now 85% sure it's the guide pins that are frozen. If I
pry as hard as I can on the top of the case with a floor jack handle,
I see the smallest imaginable crack open up--about a thousandth of an
inch, then it snaps together again. So I have to figure out how to
get the guide pins unfroze.

???

Usually, once you get things started apart, they _stay_ that way, as
there is nothing forcing them back together. Sure you have all of the
fasteners out? Someone said 8; that's what I recall, plus the two
pins. Lesee: 2 on each side at the top; the drivers side pair are
associated with the starter. 2 on each side at the bottom, the lowest
are studs with a nut on the tranny side, and the bolts above them are
somewhat hidden behind the front axles. That agree with what you have?

Both engine and bellhousing are cast Aluminum, about 1/2 inch thick.
You can break anything if you hit it hard enough, but they're fairly
stout. Also, scuffs and gouges from prying aren't a huge concern (no
sealing surface to worry about); simply clean things up with a file
before re-assembly.

Even if you can find the room to get a punch on the locating pins, I
don't think trying to drive them out would be a good idea. If you do
bugger one up, you will truly be screwed.

Heat will undoubtedly help. Just be sure you don't get any grease,
oil, or whatever lit up. Especially be careful of the fuel lines. Have
someone standing by with an extinguisher. A Propane torch will be a
better choice than an Acetylene rig; it'll take longer, but way less
chance of inadvertently overheating something. Use the spit test. If
spit sizzles on the aluminum, you probably don't want to make it any
hotter . . . 200C or so.

FWIW, I've done dozens; some are more stubborn than others, but I've
never had to resort to heat to get one to separate. My buddy Bob (owns
the local Subaru yard) is way less gentle than I am; he just grabs a
sharp chisel and makes it happen. But then if he breaks something,
it's not such a huge deal, is it?

I have the 99-02 Forester manual in .pdf format. Should be very
similar to your Legacy; especially the engine/transmission parts. If
you think it might be useful, email me and I'll send the pertinent
parts along.

ByeBye! S.

Steve Jernigan KG0MB
Laboratory Manager
Microelectronics Research
University of Colorado
(719) 262-3101

 

[StephenW]

Double check for a bolt behind where the starter was.


--
Steve
ASE Master Tech
L1 Diag
Currently residing at a Subaru Shop
4.5 years doing tires and alighnments

 

[Bob Throllop]

Follow-up: I finally got the transmission loose. It really was those
alignment pins; they were that tight. I finally got them to give by
prying as hard as I could on the top of the engine and slipping the
thinnest knife blade I could find into the crack.

Now I have to put in the new clutch and put it back together. Wonder
if that'll take another four days?