Headgaskets a second time?

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

With all the talk of blown headgaskets, my curiosity's aroused:

Some years back, I blew the headgasket on my Toyota truck (22R 4 cyl,
supposedly a "bulletproof" engine.") Miles were ~69k, it hadn't
overheated or been abused, and I was disappointed, but my buddy who owns
a machine shop says it's pretty common at similar mileage on many makes
(so for those who think Subaru's the only one, take heart. Or quit
whining?)

Anyway, he said the problem is the heads are cast with so little metal
for cooling purposes due to emissions regs making for very hot "normal"
running temps, they warp easily and blow gaskets. What he said that was
encouraging was that after the head's warped once and is machined flat,
the chances of blowing a second gasket are pretty close to zero (barring
overheating, of course.) He was right, for that engine, at least!

So, any of you guys who've blown Subie h/g's once had a second failure?
And if so, how many miles later?

Rick

 

[MN]

Hi,

With all the talk of blown headgaskets, my curiosity's aroused:

Some years back, I blew the headgasket on my Toyota truck (22R 4 cyl,
supposedly a "bulletproof" engine.") Miles were ~69k, it hadn't
overheated or been abused, and I was disappointed, but my buddy who owns
a machine shop says it's pretty common at similar mileage on many makes
(so for those who think Subaru's the only one, take heart. Or quit
whining?)

You must be out of your mind!

A head gasket failure at such early milage (as most people report)
given todays technology is absolutely inexcusable.

If it is true that Subaru tries to save money by putinng cheap
head gaskets than this is outright negligence, and needs to be
called by its name.

My personal suspicion is that its not the gaskets' fault. Its most
likely an adaptive approach to engineering. They've kept
increasing the volume of their engines from 2.0 to 2.2 to 2.5, boring
and reboring the same block, right (?) that finally they've got a serious
problem on their hands. Probably afraid to admit its cause- a mighty
embarrasment- adaptive engineering!! Was the 1.8L also basically the
same block?

MN

 

[Rick Courtright]

You must be out of your mind!

Always a possibility I'd be out of my mind to argue against.

A head gasket failure at such early milage (as most people report)
given todays technology is absolutely inexcusable.

Actually, in listening to my machine shop owner buddy, it's "today's
technology" that CAUSES such early failures. In addition to what he'd
told me, there's another item that comes to mind: how many people have
their heads retorqued on Subaru engines? It's a PITA to get to 'em,
courtesy of the design of the engine, so it's probably seldom if ever
done. Regular retorquing of heads on SOME makes of engines has proven
helpful, IME. If Subaru DOESN'T use "stretch bolts" or whatever they're
called, which are supposed to help avoid the need for retorquing, then I
can see another point where a problem could start.

If it is true that Subaru tries to save money by putinng cheap
head gaskets than this is outright negligence, and needs to be

Name me a mass produced car that's NOT built by someone cutting corners
here or there? Any mfr's gonna be looking at the numbers--hmmm, if we
save a buck by using a cheaper part, but it costs us $1000 in warranty
claims, we need to rethink this. OTOH, if we save $1000 and it costs us
a buck in warranty claims, let's go with it. We see lots of complaints
(seemingly) about headgaskets here, but how representative is our
"local" population on the NGs and forums vs the "global" population of
Subie owners? Maybe the headgasket "problem" doesn't qualify as a "real"
problem in the big picture? You know what I mean: if MY car blows a
gasket, that's 100% failure rate (in MY mind), but if mine's the only
one in 1000 that fails, that's a tenth of a percent rate, perhaps well
within any engineering or manufacturing limits as set by the mfr. I'm
not saying this isn't a problem, just exploring how big it is.

My personal suspicion is that its not the gaskets' fault. Its most
likely an adaptive approach to engineering. They've kept

There we agree. This is what my machine shop buddy was telling us.

But we could argue the causes forever and not change a thing. So let's
return to my original question: how many people have a SECOND failure?

Rick

 

[Edward Hayes]

Hi Rick: A review of Consumers Reports shows that the 98- ? 2.5L
Subaru engine dropped to average in major problems.Earlier 2.2 and
later 2.5L Subaru engine are above average in engine reliability. My
2000 Forest has no problems in 82,000 miles so it's a non issue with
me or my two friends who own 1998 and 2001 Subaru's. So to answer your
question Rick with an answer that has some statistical bases, Subaru
engines have very few problem except for two or three years where they
dropped to average. Good motoring to all. Ed Hayes