Forester questions (hill climbing)

[Bob Briedis]

I am considering the Forester X. I have test drove it a couple of
times and like how it drives. The test drives don't give a good
opportunity to try in out on long hills. Just wondering how the
vehicle handles itself on long climbs. I live in the L.A. area, so I
am speaking about climbs like the Grapevine or El Cajon pass or the
Donner pass. These are roads I travel. Can it do the hills in 4th
gear, or do you shift down to 3rd? Can you maintain a good speed
that keeps up with everyone?

I am not interested in the turbo, cause I think there are better
choices at the price point that the XT goes for.

Also I noticed that starting in December, the rebate on the Forester X
is $2,000, while there is no rebate on the Legacy and Outback. Is the
Forester getting out of flavor that they have to offer such a large
rebate while not offering a rebate on the Legacy/Outback?

Thanks
Bob

 

[ZZ]

I am considering the Forester X. I have test drove it a couple of
times and like how it drives. The test drives don't give a good
opportunity to try in out on long hills. Just wondering how the
vehicle handles itself on long climbs. I live in the L.A. area, so I
am speaking about climbs like the Grapevine or El Cajon pass or the
Donner pass. These are roads I travel. Can it do the hills in 4th
gear, or do you shift down to 3rd? Can you maintain a good speed
that keeps up with everyone?

I am not interested in the turbo, cause I think there are better
choices at the price point that the XT goes for.

Also I noticed that starting in December, the rebate on the Forester X
is $2,000, while there is no rebate on the Legacy and Outback. Is the
Forester getting out of flavor that they have to offer such a large
rebate while not offering a rebate on the Legacy/Outback?

Thanks
Bob

I know you aren't interested in the XT, but for the benefit of others
reading this thread, I recently purchased an XT (automatic) and find
it to be excellent climbing hills. I had no problems with downshifting
on Mountain Pass between Las Vegas and Baker (I-15). I live in the Las
Vegas metro area regularly drive it up into the local Spring Mountains
for hiking trips. The Lee Canyon route was from 2500' to 7800'
carrying 4 adults with hiking gear. No problems at all. In the Lake
Tahoe area it cruised up US-50 climbing up to the Tahoe basin from
both the Placerville and the Carson City sides. On one side trip we
drove up from Gardnerville into Stateline via the Kingsbury Grade and
had fun driving on the twisty mountain road.
On the way home we stopped into visit the Inyo National Forest,
Bristlecone Pine (Patriarch Grove). This route starts climbing in Big
Pine, CA, at just under 4000' and ends at about 11000'. Excellent
performer, even at altitude. On the trip, there was no time I
couldn't keep up with traffic, in many cases, I was leading the pack.




'

 

[Hal Whelply]

...I am not interested in the turbo, cause I think there are better
choices at the price point that the XT goes for.

Really?! What would those be?

 

[y_p_w]

Really?! What would those be?

There are excellent wagons in that price point ($28-30K) from
Mazda, Volkswagen, Audi, or Lexus. The VW and Audi wagons even
have AWD options.

I'd think the VW and Audis would have better handling than a
Forester, but their reliability isn't exactly legendary.

 

[Hal Whelply]

An Audi or Lexus--we're talking NEW cars here, right?--for $28-30K? With
AWD? And 210 or more HP? You must have connections I don't have.

Right: A VW is out of the contest due to reliability. Even a VW, with the V6
and "4Motion," I think would go for more than $30, sticker.

I didn't know there is an AWD Mazda. You mean that little "Mazda3"? Or the
wagon "Mazda6"? With 200+ HP? Might be under $30, if available. "Better"
would be a matter of opinion.

HW

 

[Chris Phillipo]

Subject: Re: Forester questions (hill climbing)
From: "Hal Whelply" <(e-mail address removed)>
Newsgroups: alt.autos.subaru

An Audi or Lexus--we're talking NEW cars here, right?--for $28-30K? With
AWD? And 210 or more HP? You must have connections I don't have.

Right: A VW is out of the contest due to reliability. Even a VW, with the V6
and "4Motion," I think would go for more than $30, sticker.

I didn't know there is an AWD Mazda. You mean that little "Mazda3"? Or the
wagon "Mazda6"? With 200+ HP? Might be under $30, if available. "Better"
would be a matter of opinion.

HW

Audi A4 is $26k and a hell of a lot better looking than a WRX wagon. VW
is the same company and I would drive a Lada if it had Audi's paddle
shift transmission which is in the Golf GTI and Audi TT. There is an
AWD Mazda coming and presumably a Ford Focus will follow. All Subarus
marketing of AWD is starting to pay off, for other manufacturers.

 

[Bryan Lee]

Audi A4 is $26k and a hell of a lot better looking than a WRX wagon. VW
is the same company and I would drive a Lada if it had Audi's paddle
shift transmission which is in the Golf GTI and Audi TT. There is an
AWD Mazda coming and presumably a Ford Focus will follow. All Subarus
marketing of AWD is starting to pay off, for other manufacturers.

no. The AWD Mazda is the Mazdaspeed 6. It comes out next summer. It has a
2.3L direct injection turbo 4 cyl. With 9.5 to 1 compression for more low
end torque, it has 274hp and 280 lbs-ft of torque, 6 spd manual and
electronic controlled AWD with 18" wheels.. They will not give the price
till january. for more info goto http://www.mazdausa.com

 

[David]

I am considering the Forester X. I have test drove it a couple of
times and like how it drives. The test drives don't give a good
opportunity to try in out on long hills. Just wondering how the
vehicle handles itself on long climbs. I live in the L.A. area, so I
am speaking about climbs like the Grapevine or El Cajon pass or the
Donner pass. These are roads I travel. Can it do the hills in 4th
gear, or do you shift down to 3rd? Can you maintain a good speed
that keeps up with everyone?

Keep up? You can pass, no problem (at least in the MT; haven't driven the
AT much).

I've gone up really steep (much steeper than the Grapevine) hills in both
MT and AT Forester XSs. Both had plenty of power. In the MT,
you'll definitely downshift from time to time (at 55, passing gear is 3rd).
I'm sure the AT will downshift for you too--I've only driven that in town,
but up seriously steep stuff (I think around 19% grade), no problems at all.

 

[Bob Briedis]

Really?! What would those be?

How about a new 2005 Toyota 4Runner SR5 for $22,999 (after $750
rebate)which I purchased today. Yes it was a lost leader "one only at
this price" ad, but it was available when I got to the dealer a few
minutes after they opened. It would leave the XT behind in the dust
going up a hill. I loved the Forester, but I was hestitant because
the dealers are spaced so far apart. Even in the busiest area of West
Los Angeles there is only one dealer in the area (Santa Monica).
After that you have to go into the Valley or Long Beach, both would
take over an hour in typical L.A. traffic. With Toyota, there are at
least 9 dealers within a 45 minute drive from my house.

 

[y_p_w]

An Audi or Lexus--we're talking NEW cars here, right?--for $28-30K? With
AWD? And 210 or more HP? You must have connections I don't have.

Dude. The MSRP of the Forester XT w/ automatic transmission and
destination/delivery is about $26.5K. The Forester XT Limited will
add to the price.

Right: A VW is out of the contest due to reliability. Even a VW, with the V6
and "4Motion," I think would go for more than $30, sticker.

The Audi A4 and VW Passat have the same underpinnings. I still
stand by my assertion that the VW/Audi cars will handle better
than a Forester XT. Sticker of a VW Passat GLS 4Motion is
$28,205 (automatic is standard).

I didn't know there is an AWD Mazda. You mean that little "Mazda3"? Or the
wagon "Mazda6"? With 200+ HP? Might be under $30, if available. "Better"
would be a matter of opinion.

The original poster didn't mention whether or not AWD was a must.
There are some very good wagons (like the Mazda 6) that don't yet
come in AWD.

 

[Hal Whelply]

Audi A4 is $26k...

Yes, exactly: a BASE LEVEL, 4-cyl, 180 HP A4 (and I'm not sure that would
buy a base wagon) is $26K. Upgrade it to 4Motion and the V-6, and you're
well north of $30K. Depending on time of year, incentives, etc., a Forester
XT Premium can be had for significantly less. Does the Audi look better? Of
course. The Forester is what it is, no more. Personally, I think the funky
look has character.

 

[Hal Whelply]

Can't argue with the dealer availability point. Fortunately, I haven't
needed my dealer (only about 5 miles away) in my first 15 months, except I
have gone there for oil changes.

I don't see the 4Runner as a competitor or comparable vehicle in relation to
the Forester. This is apples and oranges. You have a fine truck, no
question. But it is a truck, which is OK if that's what you need. It
weighs---what?---maybe 4,000 pounds? That's why I didn't get an SUV or
truck: why in the world would I need 2 tons or more to haul me to work?

Climb hills better? Of course your Toyota will do that better compared to
the Forester, assuming you mean rough, steep, off-road stuff. On the driving
I'll bet both of us do 95% or more of the time, my XT can out-accelerate and
out-maneuver a 4Runner anytime.

HW

 

[Hal Whelply]

Dude. The MSRP of the Forester XT w/ automatic transmission and
destination/delivery is about $26.5K. The Forester XT Limited will
add to the price.


The Audi A4 and VW Passat have the same underpinnings. I still
stand by my assertion that the VW/Audi cars will handle better
than a Forester XT. Sticker of a VW Passat GLS 4Motion is
$28,205 (automatic is standard).

And does that come with leather? Sunroof (or moonrooff--I can never recall
what the right term is) and, if it does, one the size of the XT's? (Maybe
GLS means "Great Leather and Sunroof"?!) AND if you're still talking 4 cyl.
engine, with all the weight of 4Motion, you're talking slug. The XT will be
at 60 MPH while the Audi's still huffing up to the 40 MPH mark.

Handling? Of course. Or at least the Audi/VW should handle better. For that
money, and for a lower CG, lower profile vehicle, why wouldn't it handle
better?

The original poster didn't mention whether or not AWD was a must.
There are some very good wagons (like the Mazda 6) that don't yet
come in AWD.

True, but he implied better values in comparable vehicles. AWD has to be
part of the equation for a comparison.

 

[Chris Phillipo]

no. The AWD Mazda is the Mazdaspeed 6. It comes out next summer. It has a
2.3L direct injection turbo 4 cyl. With 9.5 to 1 compression for more low
end torque, it has 274hp and 280 lbs-ft of torque, 6 spd manual and
electronic controlled AWD with 18" wheels.. They will not give the price
till january. for more info goto http://www.mazdausa.com

What exactly are you saying no to?

 

[Chris Phillipo]

Subject: Re: Forester questions (hill climbing)
From: "Hal Whelply" <(e-mail address removed)>
Newsgroups: alt.autos.subaru




And does that come with leather? Sunroof (or moonrooff--I can never recall
what the right term is) and, if it does, one the size of the XT's? (Maybe
GLS means "Great Leather and Sunroof"?!) AND if you're still talking 4 cyl.
engine, with all the weight of 4Motion, you're talking slug. The XT will be
at 60 MPH while the Audi's still huffing up to the 40 MPH mark.

Handling? Of course. Or at least the Audi/VW should handle better. For that
money, and for a lower CG, lower profile vehicle, why wouldn't it handle
better?

Have you ever thought of maybe looking something up for once instead of
asking rhetorical questions?

 

[Chris Phillipo]

Subject: Re: Forester questions (hill climbing)
From: "Hal Whelply" <(e-mail address removed)>
Newsgroups: alt.autos.subaru





Yes, exactly: a BASE LEVEL, 4-cyl, 180 HP A4 (and I'm not sure that would
buy a base wagon) is $26K. Upgrade it to 4Motion and the V-6, and you're
well north of $30K. Depending on time of year, incentives, etc., a Forester
XT Premium can be had for significantly less. Does the Audi look better? Of
course. The Forester is what it is, no more. Personally, I think the funky
look has character.

The 4 motion v6 VW is $29k with 240hp and a hell of a lot lighter than
the Forester. None of these cars were ever direct competitors for
Subaru but Subaru has it in their head now that they don't want anyone
buying their vehicles but upscale luxury seeking buyers. This is a
dangerous road to take when they start pricing their cars into true
luxury car territory. Since you have it in your head that a V6 is good,
and the Forrester doesn't currently offer one here, we have to go to the
Legacy Outback. That starts at $33k with a boxer 6, people could save a
lot of money by getting the Nissan Murano with 246hp for under $27k.

 

[Hal Whelply]

Have you ever thought of maybe looking something up for once instead of
asking rhetorical questions?

Sure, if the answer isn't self-evident.

 

[Hal Whelply]

The 4 motion v6 VW is $29k with 240hp and a hell of a lot lighter than
the Forester. None of these cars were ever direct competitors for
Subaru but Subaru has it in their head now that they don't want anyone
buying their vehicles but upscale luxury seeking buyers. This is a
dangerous road to take when they start pricing their cars into true
luxury car territory. Since you have it in your head that a V6 is good,
and the Forrester doesn't currently offer one here, we have to go to the
Legacy Outback. That starts at $33k with a boxer 6, people could save a
lot of money by getting the Nissan Murano with 246hp for under $27k.

You may quibble with this source; if so, fine, find your favorite. But
Consumer Guide at
http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/38263 says
a Passat with 4Motion weighs 3,721 lbs. The same source at
http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/38234 says
the Forester weighs 3,090 lbs. I'd guess the Forester number to be low by a
couple hundred pounds (an XT Premium weighs 3,300 lbs., as I've seen in some
source I don't recall). But whatever the Forester weighs, it's clearly over
400 lbs. lighter than a Passat.

 

[Hal Whelply]

I brought up the V6 because that was the only way the power in a VW could
come close to the Forester's turbocharged motor, which is quite capable of
competing with brands you've mentioned, even the Murano, which Consumer
Guide )(see
http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/38207) says
weighs over 3,900 lbs. Hauling all that--at least 600 lbs. more than a
Forester XT--with a mere 246 HP, it would be no match for an XT. Though
nominally the XT is rated at 210 HP, word on the street has it really
turning out something more like 230-240 HP. Virtually the same engine in the
2005 Outback is rated at 250 HP, and starts at just over $28K. By the way,
to get that kind of power in the Outback, the buyer needn't go to the H-6,
which has the same horsepower rating. So the $33K for an H-6 is irrelevant.

As for Nissan, yes, they make good motors. But would you really want to live
with their interior materials quality?

 

[Chris Phillipo]

You may quibble with this source; if so, fine, find your favorite. But
Consumer Guide at
http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/38263 says
a Passat with 4Motion weighs 3,721 lbs. The same source at
http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/38234 says
the Forester weighs 3,090 lbs. I'd guess the Forester number to be low by a
couple hundred pounds (an XT Premium weighs 3,300 lbs., as I've seen in some
source I don't recall). But whatever the Forester weighs, it's clearly over
400 lbs. lighter than a Passat.

I'm talking about the Golf R32.