ESP - Electronic Stability Program.

[news.radiant.net]

When can I get a Subaru with ESP?

Standard feature on BMW, MB and others. $430 extra on VW.

 

[Holly Wood]

When can I get VDC?

 

[CompUser]

When can I get a Subaru with ESP?

When they decide to offer it. Next!

 

[news.radiant.net]

a bit cryptic, but GOOD ANSWER !!.

From: "Holly Wood" <(e-mail address removed)>
Subject: Re: ESP - Electronic Stability Program.


When can I get VDC?

 

[Kjell-Bjarne pettersen]

When can I get a Subaru with ESP?

Standard feature on BMW, MB and others. $430 extra on VW.

In Norway , (uses Subaru importet from japan) there has been 3 models with
VDC (esp+trc), 01 Outback H6 VDC and 2,5VDC, and Legacy 2,5GX.
From 2002 it was standard in all Outbacks, Legacy GX (not shure) Same inn
year 2003, in 2004 new models arrived and only Outback 3.0R have VDC, From
my05 Outback 2,5 has VDC as standard. Inn Germany there as been Legacy 2,5GX
VDC from my00

I have one my 05 Outback 2,5 ZN VDC, and my brother have a my02 Outback 2,5
VDC

Subaru with VDC, have a other type off awd. 55% rear axle, and 45% front
axle, real fun on winter roads.

KjellP in Norway

 

[Ross]

When can I get a Subaru with ESP?

Standard feature on BMW, MB and others. $430 extra on VW.

Why would you want to spoil a Subaru's great chassis with electronics. I
like mine cause it has no electronic aids other than the (unobtrusive and
late acting) ABS and BFD

Ross

 

[news.radiant.net]

I have driven a car with traction control and ESP and ESP (VDC) can really
save your ASSets.

Feeling too playful and overcook a corner? ESP can correct it before you
spin out of control.

Don't see it coming and hit some black ice in a corner? ESP will keep the
car under control, and you might still be able to steer or brake before
hitting the curb/guardrail/ditch/embankment/cliff.

Why would you want to spoil a Subaru's great chassis with electronics. I
like mine cause it has no electronic aids other than the (unobtrusive and
late acting) ABS and BFD
Ross

 

[Mike Deskevich]

Why would you want to spoil a Subaru's great chassis with electronics. I
like mine cause it has no electronic aids other than the (unobtrusive and
late acting) ABS and BFD

Ross

if i could turn of the ABS i would. i find subaru's abs absolute crap,
especially when it's slippery out. example: this winter i was going
down pretty steep a hill and half way down i need to turn to a side
road. of course there's a broken pipe or something, so the road is
mostly dry except for a strip of solid ice about 3 feet wide that goes
all the way across the road right before i need to make the turn. the
first time i go down in my truck (no abs). as i slow down to make the
turn, the front tires skid on the ice, but it's no big deal as the rear
tires do the braking, and as soon at the front tires are back on the
pavement the rears skid, again no problem, and i was expecting it so i
make the turn just fine. the next day i'm coming down the same hill in
my subaru. as soon as the front tires skid on the ice, the abs unlocks
ALL of the wheels and i effectively lose braking on all 4 wheels
because two are skidding. so i didn't get slowed down enough to make
the turn and i had to go all the way down the hill and then try again.
these aren't big problem, as i was driving slow because of the bad road
conditions, but why would you cut braking to all the wheels because
some are skidding. also, in the winter i find it fun to slide into
parking spaces. i can always stop where i plan to in my truck, but i
always overshoot in the subaru because the abs has a very slow
lock/unlock frequency (but this is just screwing around, not actual
driving, so i really can't complain). i'd love to pull the ABS fuse
and just run it regular, but i know if i ever got in an accident the
insurance company wouldn't pay because i had ABS turned off.

 

[Mike Deskevich]

Feeling too playful and overcook a corner? ESP can correct it before you
spin out of control.

not true. a good driver (or atleast one that's paying attention) can
detect the problems before the compuer. i've test driven a couple of
cars with esp (bmw, audi, vw) and purposely took them to their limits
to see how esp behaves. the first couple of times i instinctively
corrected the "mistake" before the computer caught it. i had to force
myself to not react, and the computer is scary slow at fixing the
problem (but in my experiences, it was able to correct for the
sliding). in serious situaions (like getting playful on a corner) it's
not going to save you - or atleast i wouldn't want to rely on it to
save me. it may be helpful in making small corrections if you're
sliding on a snowy road, but i still doubt it'll be any better than a
driver who's paying attention to the car (which is what all drivers
should be doing anyway).

 

[Al]

not true. a good driver (or atleast one that's paying attention) can
detect the problems before the compuer. i've test driven a couple of
cars with esp (bmw, audi, vw) and purposely took them to their limits
to see how esp behaves. the first couple of times i instinctively
corrected the "mistake" before the computer caught it. i had to force
myself to not react, and the computer is scary slow at fixing the
problem (but in my experiences, it was able to correct for the
sliding). in serious situaions (like getting playful on a corner) it's
not going to save you - or atleast i wouldn't want to rely on it to
save me. it may be helpful in making small corrections if you're
sliding on a snowy road, but i still doubt it'll be any better than a
driver who's paying attention to the car (which is what all drivers
should be doing anyway).

Neither my wife nor I ever used the ABS on our '96 Outback. But the
blasted thing cost me a grand to replace when it failed after warranty.
What crapola! Please save me from the electronics and gadgets that do
the thinking for me!

Al

 

[JD]

Neither my wife nor I ever used the ABS on our '96 Outback. But the
blasted thing cost me a grand to replace when it failed after warranty.
What crapola! Please save me from the electronics and gadgets that do
the thinking for me!

Al

Then why did you replace it? If ABS fails, they just work like conventional
brakes. Personally, living in a place that snows 6 mos of the year, I LOVE
ABS

 

[Al]

Then why did you replace it? If ABS fails, they just work like conventional
brakes. Personally, living in a place that snows 6 mos of the year, I LOVE
ABS

All of the fluid leaked out of it and, voila, no brakes. I wanted the
mechanic to bypass the thing, but he refused. G_D lawyers have everybody
scared.

And we live in NE with our share of snow and ice. When it really gets
bad, we use my '91 Jeep. It goes through stuff that stops the Subie
cold. What stuff? Like the pile in front of the driveway put there by
the town plows.

Oh, and in my opinion, if you're using your ABS, you're not driving
safely.

Al

 

[Bonehenge]

not true. a good driver (or atleast one that's paying attention) can
detect the problems before the compuer.

I'm with ya' brother!

That was my primary beef with my Subie's ABS. It actuated too early.

Barry

 

[JD]

All of the fluid leaked out of it and, voila, no brakes. I wanted the
mechanic to bypass the thing, but he refused. G_D lawyers have everybody
scared.

And we live in NE with our share of snow and ice. When it really gets
bad, we use my '91 Jeep. It goes through stuff that stops the Subie
cold. What stuff? Like the pile in front of the driveway put there by
the town plows.

Oh, and in my opinion, if you're using your ABS, you're not driving
safely.

Al

To the contrary. I drive perfectly well with or without ABS. I just do it
differently, since if you pump the brakes (which is what ABS is supposed to
do for you) you'll confuse the computer and probably are worse off than
letting ABS do it for you. My ABS only kicks in when some retard does
something stupid in front of me; like cross the centerline because they are
driving too fast.

 

[news.radiant.net]

Here is a quote from an article in Carguide (June 2005, pg 11):
"Mercedes says international research has shown that stability control can
prevent 15 percent of all crashes and up to 35 percent of single-vehicle
crashes."

All of the fluid leaked out of it and, voila, no brakes. I wanted the
mechanic to bypass the thing, but he refused. G_D lawyers have everybody
scared.

And we live in NE with our share of snow and ice. When it really gets
bad, we use my '91 Jeep. It goes through stuff that stops the Subie
cold. What stuff? Like the pile in front of the driveway put there by
the town plows.

Oh, and in my opinion, if you're using your ABS, you're not driving
safely.

Al

To the contrary. I drive perfectly well with or without ABS. I just do it
differently, since if you pump the brakes (which is what ABS is supposed to
do for you) you'll confuse the computer and probably are worse off than
letting ABS do it for you. My ABS only kicks in when some retard does
something stupid in front of me; like cross the centerline because they are
driving too fast.

 

[Jim Stewart]

Here is a quote from an article in Carguide (June 2005, pg 11):
"Mercedes says international research has shown that stability control can
prevent 15 percent of all crashes and up to 35 percent of single-vehicle
crashes."

Hard to say whether that's a testimony to the
brilliance of the automotive engineers or the
bumbling stupidity of most drivers....

 

[Karma]

probably some of both.
Situations will always arise that you cannot and did not anticipate.
I for one, would feel better with a car that can help when that happens.

news.radiant.net wrote:

Hard to say whether that's a testimony to the
brilliance of the automotive engineers or the
bumbling stupidity of most drivers....