anti lock brakes

B

Bruce

I was driving my son's 95 Legacy wagon today and the ABS light went
on. The weather was snowing so I pulled into a rest area and tried the
brakes. No ABS.

We noticed after I turned the car off that there was a noise in the
front right under the hood. Not being a mechanic I felt it was the ABS
since the light had gone on and this was a new occurance.

Several hours later the battery was dead since this (ABS) continued to
run.

I would appreciate info on what has happened and what the fix is.

Thanks
 
Bruce said:
I was driving my son's 95 Legacy wagon today and the ABS light went
on. The weather was snowing so I pulled into a rest area and tried the
brakes. No ABS.

We noticed after I turned the car off that there was a noise in the
front right under the hood. Not being a mechanic I felt it was the ABS
since the light had gone on and this was a new occurance.

Several hours later the battery was dead since this (ABS) continued to
run.

I would appreciate info on what has happened and what the fix is.

Thanks
Quick -n- dirty solution

Identify exactly where the noise is coming from and give it a light tap
with a small knockometer.

Alternatively pull the part and clean the contacts.
 
I was driving my son's 95 Legacy wagon today and the ABS light went
on. The weather was snowing so I pulled into a rest area and tried the
brakes. No ABS.

We noticed after I turned the car off that there was a noise in the
front right under the hood. Not being a mechanic I felt it was the ABS
since the light had gone on and this was a new occurance.

Several hours later the battery was dead since this (ABS) continued to
run.

I would appreciate info on what has happened and what the fix is.

Thanks

Sounds like the ABS pump was stuck on due to a problem with a relay or
the control unit. Best to have a shop look at this, probably not
something you can easily diagnose and repair on your own.
 
We noticed after I turned the car off that there was a noise in the
front right under the hood. Not being a mechanic I felt it was the ABS
since the light had gone on and this was a new occurance.

Several hours later the battery was dead since this (ABS) continued to
run.

I would appreciate info on what has happened and what the fix is.

I know this problem from my old legacy, its the ABS pump coming from the
right (passenger) side at the very front of your car.

- To prevent the battery from running dead while the problem is not fixed:
Simply remove the ABS contact plug so that it's not connected and won't use
the energy from your battery.

- I was able to fix it by slightly knocking with a metal stick (screwdriver)
or something similar.

Hope that helps

regards, Michael
 
I had it once on my '91 Legacy turbo due to "playing"in the snow. It seems
that the ABS systeem can't cope withe all 4wheels spinning for any period.
The ABS pump continued to run so i took the main fuse from the fusebox wich
is located front left(from driverseat view) and put it back after one
minute. No probs ever since. Except for the "normal" malfunction whilst
"playing"in the snow.

Greets from Heerlen, the Netherlands

Marc
 
I had it once on my '91 Legacy turbo due to "playing"in the snow.

Absolutely true, but when I'm playing in the snow the ABS simply switches
off (i.e. the light goes on and the sensors don't work any more) but the
pump is working just fine.
It seems
that the ABS systeem can't cope withe all 4wheels spinning for any period.

Hardest for the ABS is doing 180° and 360°. Spinning wheels on a sideways
motion of the car confuses the computer, it seems ;-)
The ABS pump continued to run so i took the main fuse from the fusebox wich
is located front left(from driverseat view) and put it back after one
minute. No probs ever since. Except for the "normal" malfunction whilst
"playing"in the snow.

I experienced both probs, though. The running pump with my old ('92) Legacy
turbo independent of driving conditions, rather dependent on weather
conditions; the ABS switching off after playing with my "new" Legacy ('94).
 
This is a common problem. A relay in the control box goes bad. As several
posters have pointed out you can usually unstick it by tapping on it. I
couple of years ago I posted a generic relay, available from electronic
suppliers, that will plug right in. I can't remember the model number right
now, will try to find it. The relays
are available for a few bucks each.
Bob Wilson
 
Robert said:
This is a common problem. A relay in the control box goes bad. As several
posters have pointed out you can usually unstick it by tapping on it. I
couple of years ago I posted a generic relay, available from electronic
suppliers, that will plug right in. I can't remember the model number right
now, will try to find it. The relays
are available for a few bucks each.
Bob Wilson

Hopefully the replacement meets the current carrying and switching
capacity of the original. As well as any reverse battery protection
that may be built in.

--
Thank you,


CL Gilbert
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16
 
Here is what I posted two years ago. In response to one post, I wouldn't
call it a replacement if it did not have at least as good specs. There is no
"reverse current" issue involved. I got the replacement relay, tried it to
make sure it worked, but put back the original out of curiosity. It
continued to work for another 20K miles after being banged on. I note that
Mouser now carries the same relay also, any electronics supply place can
probably get it.
RLW
From time to time I have seen postings here about the ABS light coming on
and also an additional symptom, noise from right front corner of car after
you turn it off. If you have not seen it, there is a bulletin from June,
1996, about a replacement relay for at least the years 1991-1996 and models
including at least SVX and Legacy, I am not sure what else. But if you take
the problem to a dealer I hear you get charged an enormous amout if they
recognize the relay problem and maybe they even replace the whole ABS
control unit for $1000 or so if they don't catch it!
The ABS light came on in my 95 Legacy Outback the other day, and there was
the noise from the right front corner. I had not paid attention in the past
and did not know about the sticking relay issue. I unplugged the power
connector from the front of the control box so that at least it would not be
tearing itself apart, so I could have time to look into it, and I found out
about the relay problem. Some had mentioned that hitting the side of the
control unit might fix it at least temporarily. It now becomes clear why. On
the top, front, of the control unit there is a black plastic lid you can
easily remove, except that in my car at least you have to get the air intake
pipe out of the way first. Under the lid are two black plastic relays. In my
unit the one nearer the front of the car, lots of writing on top of it, is
the one that controls the motor. It can be unplugged with a little wiggling
and tugging. I looked up data on the relay. It is very conservatively rated,
no problem there, but I guess it has a design flaw that lets the armature
get stuck in one position: It is not welding the contacts together as an
underrated relay might. But just unplugging it and plugging it back in shook
it around enough to make it work perfectly in my case. So here is my plan:
This car has 108K miles. If the relay goes another 108K
before I have to shake it again, no complaints! If it does stick again and
does not want to unstick so easily, I could drill a small hole in its
plastic case (careful of depth, going more than a sixteenth of an inch with
a drill bit would probably ruin the relay...) and spray in some contact
cleaner/lubricant, then seal the hole with tape or glue. That might fix it,
nothing lost if it does not.
My dealer wants $96.50 for a new relay. But DigiKey and Newark show an Omron
relay, model G8JN-1C7T-DC12, that ought to plug right in: I think DigiKey
wants $5.60 for it. (Same number with 6 unstead of 7 should also work.) It
is slightly larger in one direction than the original but there is room in
the compartment. The next time I order from one of those places I will get a
relay to keep in the car, but since it is working for now there is no need
to make a special order. I hope someone finds this helpful. Note that it
does not pretend to fix all ABS problems, there are lots of things that can
turn on the ABS light, but it does sort of resolve the sticking relay issue.
Bob Wilson
 
Bob:

Thank you for all of the great information.
I will certainly pass this on to my teenager who is the driver and
mechanic.

Regards,

Bruce
 
Robert said:
Here is what I posted two years ago. In response to one post, I wouldn't
call it a replacement if it did not have at least as good specs. There is no
"reverse current" issue involved. I got the replacement relay, tried it to
make sure it worked, but put back the original out of curiosity. It
continued to work for another 20K miles after being banged on. I note that
Mouser now carries the same relay also, any electronics supply place can
probably get it.
RLW
From time to time I have seen postings here about the ABS light coming on
and also an additional symptom, noise from right front corner of car after
you turn it off. If you have not seen it, there is a bulletin from June,
1996, about a replacement relay for at least the years 1991-1996 and models
including at least SVX and Legacy, I am not sure what else. But if you take
the problem to a dealer I hear you get charged an enormous amout if they
recognize the relay problem and maybe they even replace the whole ABS
control unit for $1000 or so if they don't catch it!
The ABS light came on in my 95 Legacy Outback the other day, and there was
the noise from the right front corner. I had not paid attention in the past
and did not know about the sticking relay issue. I unplugged the power
connector from the front of the control box so that at least it would not be
tearing itself apart, so I could have time to look into it, and I found out
about the relay problem. Some had mentioned that hitting the side of the
control unit might fix it at least temporarily. It now becomes clear why. On
the top, front, of the control unit there is a black plastic lid you can
easily remove, except that in my car at least you have to get the air intake
pipe out of the way first. Under the lid are two black plastic relays. In my
unit the one nearer the front of the car, lots of writing on top of it, is
the one that controls the motor. It can be unplugged with a little wiggling
and tugging. I looked up data on the relay. It is very conservatively rated,
no problem there, but I guess it has a design flaw that lets the armature
get stuck in one position: It is not welding the contacts together as an
underrated relay might. But just unplugging it and plugging it back in shook
it around enough to make it work perfectly in my case. So here is my plan:
This car has 108K miles. If the relay goes another 108K
before I have to shake it again, no complaints! If it does stick again and
does not want to unstick so easily, I could drill a small hole in its
plastic case (careful of depth, going more than a sixteenth of an inch with
a drill bit would probably ruin the relay...) and spray in some contact
cleaner/lubricant, then seal the hole with tape or glue. That might fix it,
nothing lost if it does not.
My dealer wants $96.50 for a new relay. But DigiKey and Newark show an Omron
relay, model G8JN-1C7T-DC12, that ought to plug right in: I think DigiKey
wants $5.60 for it. (Same number with 6 unstead of 7 should also work.) It
is slightly larger in one direction than the original but there is room in
the compartment. The next time I order from one of those places I will get a
relay to keep in the car, but since it is working for now there is no need
to make a special order. I hope someone finds this helpful. Note that it
does not pretend to fix all ABS problems, there are lots of things that can
turn on the ABS light, but it does sort of resolve the sticking relay issue.
Bob Wilson


"Reverse battery" protection, not reverse current. Its for when some
bozo connects the battery in reverse. Some relays refuse to engage this
way. Older protection was to include a diode. However, the newest
involves protection on the module that pulls in the relay itself. Thats
why I say the replacement needs to have the same feature as the original
in this respect. or just dont plug the battery in backwards :p

Also, underhood relays are rated for much higher temperature than cabin
relays. Omron is an automotive relay supplier though.

Either way you cut it, the price is going to be near what you paid, so
its just a matter of matching. Im not trying to justify that rediculous
dealership price.

The footprint is pretty common so you want to match the contact load,
switching Load, reverse battery protection if any, and operating
temperature. If you did that, all is well.

--
Thank you,


CL Gilbert
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16
 

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