'99 Legacy Outback 2.5L - where is the thermostat?

[Wilson]

I've always looked for the thermostat at the end of the return hose on the
top of the block. I sure hope it's on the bottom for this car or I'll have
to remove the intake manifold and that can't be right. Please tell me that
isn't right.

 

[Wilson]

sometime in the recent past Wilson posted this:

I've always looked for the thermostat at the end of the return hose on
the top of the block. I sure hope it's on the bottom for this car or
I'll have to remove the intake manifold and that can't be right. Please
tell me that isn't right.

Never mind - it is on the bottom. Now that I've replaced the old thermostat
with a new one and tested the old one to see that it opened at the proper
temperature, I've got to find out why it occasionally overheats. I'm
thinking I may have a small leak in the system that's letting the coolant
get low.

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

sometime in the recent past Wilson posted this:
Never mind - it is on the bottom. Now that I've replaced the old
thermostat with a new one and tested the old one to see that it opened
at the proper temperature, I've got to find out why it occasionally
overheats. I'm thinking I may have a small leak in the system that's
letting the coolant get low.

Headgaskets are always a suspect but sometimes improper filling of the
system, bad radiator caps and other less likely issues can also cause
odd coolant loss.
You should search for 'burping' 'purging' and 'air bubbl' in conjunction
with coolant filling as well as 'bad headgaskets'.

carl

 

[Wilson]

sometime in the recent past Carl 1 Lucky Texan posted this:

Headgaskets are always a suspect but sometimes improper filling of the
system, bad radiator caps and other less likely issues can also cause
odd coolant loss.
You should search for 'burping' 'purging' and 'air bubbl' in conjunction
with coolant filling as well as 'bad headgaskets'.

carl

Thanks Carl. After cooling down last night, I started the car this morning
and managed to get 3 qts. drained which is a little less than 1/2 of the
coolant. Then I added 2 qts. & 1 pt. of antifreeze & drove 12 miles one way
to town and back. All the way the temp gauge would run up to hot and then
drop back to normal.

When I got home, the reservoir was full of green fluid, but it's temp was
cool. Finding it cool and probably a couple of minutes later, I jiggled the
rad. cap and found that I could remove it. I began to add the rest of the 3
qts. of AF, but the volume in the radiator began to expand, so I recapped
it. That's when I noticed that the reservoir was being sucked back into the
radiator and the return radiator hose had collapsed as I heard the
gurgling/sucking sounds. So I added the remainder of the original 3 qts. of
AF fluid to the reservoir. Thinking it might suck even more from it, I
topped off the reservoir with some 50/50 AF & water I had mixed up from before.

I had only two thoughts left since my oil cap is clean (no water & oil cream
deposits) I figured my head gasket was okay (compression test at dealers
last fall was okay.) I'm left with purging a bubble in the system and a weak
radiator cap. I was surprised to find the reservoir tank cool since it was
empty when I started out this morning.

What symptoms does a weak radiator cap present?
TIA

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

sometime in the recent past Carl 1 Lucky Texan posted this:
Thanks Carl. After cooling down last night, I started the car this
morning and managed to get 3 qts. drained which is a little less than
1/2 of the coolant. Then I added 2 qts. & 1 pt. of antifreeze & drove 12
miles one way to town and back. All the way the temp gauge would run up
to hot and then drop back to normal.

When I got home, the reservoir was full of green fluid, but it's temp
was cool. Finding it cool and probably a couple of minutes later, I
jiggled the rad. cap and found that I could remove it. I began to add
the rest of the 3 qts. of AF, but the volume in the radiator began to
expand, so I recapped it. That's when I noticed that the reservoir was
being sucked back into the radiator and the return radiator hose had
collapsed as I heard the gurgling/sucking sounds. So I added the
remainder of the original 3 qts. of AF fluid to the reservoir. Thinking
it might suck even more from it, I topped off the reservoir with some
50/50 AF & water I had mixed up from before.

I had only two thoughts left since my oil cap is clean (no water & oil
cream deposits) I figured my head gasket was okay (compression test at
dealers last fall was okay.) I'm left with purging a bubble in the
system and a weak radiator cap. I was surprised to find the reservoir
tank cool since it was empty when I started out this morning.

What symptoms does a weak radiator cap present?
TIA

I'm no expert, but nowadays they serve really 3 related purposes. To
keep some pressure in the system to raise the boiling point of the
coolant mix BUT allow for fluid expansion. The little disc in the center
of the cap allows for contraction on cooling and lets fluid back into
the radiator from the overflow tank. Of course, some part of that system
can be non-functioning and cause varoius problems. The rubber gasketing
on the cap can crack, the o'flow bottle can leak or the small hose going
to it can be blocked, etc.

I HOPE you only have a bubble or air. But some 99s have internal leakage
($$$$) IIRC and others may have external leakage (hassle to $ to $$$$).

watching the o'flow bottle can sometimes be your best guide.(it can
sometimes take 2-3 'drive cycles' - with overnight cooling to really get
the air out) Technicians may also be able to 'sniff' for exhaust gasses
in the radiator. Also, any sweet, caramel smell can be hot coolant, out
the tailpipe or dripping externally.

Your engine may also require the Subaru headgasket sealant. Others here
will know the specifics.

Carl

 

[Wilson]

sometime in the recent past Carl 1 Lucky Texan posted this:

I'm no expert, but nowadays they serve really 3 related purposes. To
keep some pressure in the system to raise the boiling point of the
coolant mix BUT allow for fluid expansion. The little disc in the center
of the cap allows for contraction on cooling and lets fluid back into
the radiator from the overflow tank. Of course, some part of that system
can be non-functioning and cause varoius problems. The rubber gasketing
on the cap can crack, the o'flow bottle can leak or the small hose going
to it can be blocked, etc.

I HOPE you only have a bubble or air. But some 99s have internal leakage
($$$$) IIRC and others may have external leakage (hassle to $ to $$$$).

watching the o'flow bottle can sometimes be your best guide.(it can
sometimes take 2-3 'drive cycles' - with overnight cooling to really get
the air out) Technicians may also be able to 'sniff' for exhaust gasses
in the radiator. Also, any sweet, caramel smell can be hot coolant, out
the tailpipe or dripping externally.

Your engine may also require the Subaru headgasket sealant. Others here
will know the specifics.

Carl

OK. I think it was air in the system that needed purging. Reading stuff, I
now better understand the purpose of the 'o'flow bottle' and the need for
fluid to be in it so when air in the system expands and exhausts into that
bottle, it can draw replacement coolant back into the system.

I've now put 75 miles on it and the temperature gauge gets to the middle
range and hasn't moved off of that point except to cool back down after the
run. Thanks for the help. I thought I was looking at big $$$ too.

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

sometime in the recent past Carl 1 Lucky Texan posted this:
OK. I think it was air in the system that needed purging. Reading stuff,
I now better understand the purpose of the 'o'flow bottle' and the need
for fluid to be in it so when air in the system expands and exhausts
into that bottle, it can draw replacement coolant back into the system.

I've now put 75 miles on it and the temperature gauge gets to the middle
range and hasn't moved off of that point except to cool back down after
the run. Thanks for the help. I thought I was looking at big $$$ too.

Please investigate whether the Subaru Coolant Conditioner (stop leak) is
recommended for your engine.

otherwise, good job!

Carl

 

[Wilson]

sometime in the recent past Carl 1 Lucky Texan posted this:

Please investigate whether the Subaru Coolant Conditioner (stop leak) is
recommended for your engine.

otherwise, good job!

Carl

Well, yesterday I put 300 miles on the car. The first 100 went just fine,
then I made a strong pass where I basically floor it until I pull back in
ending at about75 mph. I was just thinking how strong the car was running
and about towing the boat to the late. Then I noticed the temp gauge
climbing right up into the 'H.'

At the halfway point, I took it to a Subaru dealer to have them check it
out. Right off, they asked me how I refilled the system. Seems that the
correct way to purge the air is to fill the top block first by removing the
top return radiator hose at the radiator and filling that first. They did
that, but then reported that they smelled 'gas' in the overflow reservoir.
On the printout, they said 'it may still need a head gasket - $1,700 + tax.'
And they wouldn't be able to get to it until Monday & Tuesday. So I drove it
back home the return 150 miles. But this time, no mash the peddle passing
and the temp gauge stayed just where it should. And all that cost $100.

I think I do have a very small head gasket leak that doesn't present it self
until the rpm's are run up in a hard pass. Looking back, a hard pass
preceded every overheating episode. Driving hard forced gases into the water
jacket and then blew all 1/2 the coolant out into the reservoir. Now at
182,000 miles, I have to decide whether $1,700 is a good investment. Hope
this helps somebody else. Thanks.

 

[nobody >]

I think I do have a very small head gasket leak that doesn't present it
self until the rpm's are run up in a hard pass. Looking back, a hard
pass preceded every overheating episode. Driving hard forced gases into
the water jacket and then blew all 1/2 the coolant out into the
reservoir. Now at 182,000 miles, I have to decide whether $1,700 is a
good investment. Hope this helps somebody else. Thanks.

Here in the Seattle area, Kelly Blue Book says your 99 OB is worth $7500
(I got $9,260 the second time I ran it ??) (buy at dealer) if in
excellent condition. You may want to run it yourself at
http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/1999_Subaru_Legacy_Retail.aspx.

I was lucky when my 2000 OBL blew a gasket, it was still (just barely)
inside the special extended warranty on head gaskets. All I had to pay
for was the cam belt as I had them replace it while they had it apart.

I'm guessing you like the car, so that gives a little weight towards
fixing it.

Trade-in values from KBB without the HG problem.
Excellent $4,100
Good $3,625
Fair $2,825

Subtract $1500-2000 from that for the HG..

If it was me with this car, I'd probably fix it. My reasons:
$1700 doesn't make a lot of payments on a replacement vehicle.
I don't like the later/new Outbacks.
I don't like to have to "learn" another vehicle.
I'd probably end up eating the $600 sound system upgrades I've put in
it. (special case?)
There's a lot of miles left in your car, I've seen some with over 300k
still running fine.

That's me, but I tend to run my vehicles many years. Overall, even $1700
repair bills are OK if spread over many years and miles.

 

[Wilson]

sometime in the recent past nobody > posted this:

Here in the Seattle area, Kelly Blue Book says your 99 OB is worth $7500
(I got $9,260 the second time I ran it ??) (buy at dealer) if in
excellent condition. You may want to run it yourself at
http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/1999_Subaru_Legacy_Retail.aspx.

I was lucky when my 2000 OBL blew a gasket, it was still (just barely)
inside the special extended warranty on head gaskets. All I had to pay
for was the cam belt as I had them replace it while they had it apart.

I'm guessing you like the car, so that gives a little weight towards
fixing it.

Trade-in values from KBB without the HG problem.
Excellent $4,100
Good $3,625
Fair $2,825

Subtract $1500-2000 from that for the HG..

If it was me with this car, I'd probably fix it. My reasons:
$1700 doesn't make a lot of payments on a replacement vehicle.
I don't like the later/new Outbacks.
I don't like to have to "learn" another vehicle.
I'd probably end up eating the $600 sound system upgrades I've put in
it. (special case?)
There's a lot of miles left in your car, I've seen some with over 300k
still running fine.

That's me, but I tend to run my vehicles many years. Overall, even $1700
repair bills are OK if spread over many years and miles.

I'm thinking of fixing it too, for all the reasons you mentioned. I'll still
sweat the first thousand miles after a major repair hoping my car didn't
catch a 'cold' at the shop as that seems to happen often. Go fix one thing
and develop 2 more. ;-)