'92 Legacy: Blown head gasket/popped timing belt pulley

[George S.]

On my '92 Legacy with 2.2 liter non-turbo engine, it appears that the
driver's-side head gasket has blown, because all the anti-freeze was quickly
blown into the overflow container then out to the pavement, splattering the
inside of the right front tire & suspension.

Also, the driver's-side timing belt idler pulley has been forced out through
the plastic cover and is now exposed.

The engine actually runs in this condition.

I am not sure that the head gasket has blown or something more serious has
occurred.
The popped idler pulley doesn't seem to explain why all the coolant was
ejected.
A blown head gasket doesn't seem to explain the popped idler pulley.

Can anyone here piece this together and come up with an idea of what
happened and if it is worth repairing this 14 year old car?

Thanks,
George S.
NJ-USA

 

[George S.]

On my '92 Legacy with 2.2 liter non-turbo engine, it appears that the
driver's-side head gasket has blown, because all the anti-freeze was quickly
blown into the overflow container then out to the pavement, splattering the
inside of the right front tire & suspension.

Also, the driver's-side timing belt idler pulley has been forced out through
the plastic cover and is now exposed.

The engine actually runs in this condition.

I am not sure that the head gasket has blown or something more serious has
occurred.
The popped idler pulley doesn't seem to explain why all the coolant was
ejected.
A blown head gasket doesn't seem to explain the popped idler pulley.

Can anyone here piece this together and come up with an idea of what
happened and if it is worth repairing this 14 year old car?

Thanks,
George S.
NJ-USA

PS: There is no coolant in the oil or vice versa.

 

[Jim Stewart]

On my '92 Legacy with 2.2 liter non-turbo engine, it appears that the
driver's-side head gasket has blown, because all the anti-freeze was quickly
blown into the overflow container then out to the pavement, splattering the
inside of the right front tire & suspension.

Also, the driver's-side timing belt idler pulley has been forced out through
the plastic cover and is now exposed.

The engine actually runs in this condition.

I am not sure that the head gasket has blown or something more serious has
occurred.
The popped idler pulley doesn't seem to explain why all the coolant was
ejected.
A blown head gasket doesn't seem to explain the popped idler pulley.

Can anyone here piece this together and come up with an idea of what
happened and if it is worth repairing this 14 year old car?

Could you put some pictures up somewhere
and send us a link. I'm having a hard
time visualizing a poped idler pulley
and how the engine could still run.

 

[dnoyeB]

On my '92 Legacy with 2.2 liter non-turbo engine, it appears that the
driver's-side head gasket has blown, because all the anti-freeze was quickly
blown into the overflow container then out to the pavement, splattering the
inside of the right front tire & suspension.

Also, the driver's-side timing belt idler pulley has been forced out through
the plastic cover and is now exposed.

The engine actually runs in this condition.

I am not sure that the head gasket has blown or something more serious has
occurred.
The popped idler pulley doesn't seem to explain why all the coolant was
ejected.
A blown head gasket doesn't seem to explain the popped idler pulley.

Can anyone here piece this together and come up with an idea of what
happened and if it is worth repairing this 14 year old car?

Thanks,
George S.
NJ-USA

If this were a Chevette I would say the water pump just broke. The
pulley is attached to the water pump and is what makes it 'pump.' And
would also explain the gush of antifreeze. But it wouldnt have went
through the bottle.

In any even this is not a Chevette...

--
Thank you,



"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16

 

[Mickey]

On my '92 Legacy with 2.2 liter non-turbo engine, it appears that the
driver's-side head gasket has blown, because all the anti-freeze was quickly
blown into the overflow container then out to the pavement, splattering the
inside of the right front tire & suspension.

Also, the driver's-side timing belt idler pulley has been forced out through
the plastic cover and is now exposed.

The engine actually runs in this condition.

I am not sure that the head gasket has blown or something more serious has
occurred.
The popped idler pulley doesn't seem to explain why all the coolant was
ejected.
A blown head gasket doesn't seem to explain the popped idler pulley.

Can anyone here piece this together and come up with an idea of what
happened and if it is worth repairing this 14 year old car?

Thanks,
George S.
NJ-USA

IMO separate issues. From what you've said I'd agree with thoughts on
blown HG. Why do you believe it's the left side HG? If blowing out
the overflow and that's on the right side, what's the importance of
mentioning the splatter on right side?

Mickey

 

[George S.]

PS: There is no coolant in the oil or vice versa.

Here is what occurred:
The water pump seized and the water pump shaft broke.
The water pump pulley, now unattached to the pump but still driven by the
timing belt, pressed against the plastic timing belt cover through which it
neatly wore a hole and protruded outward from.
(It was not an idler pulley that was forced out through the timing belt
cover.)
The car overheated and blew out most of the anti freeze, overflowing the
overflow container onto the ground.

Lessen learned:
Although the timing belt was replaced at 55,869 miles, the water pump was
not.
I understand that it is advisable on vehicles with timing belt driven water
pumps to replace the water pump when replacing the timing belt.
(Along with all idler and tensioning pulleys and even camshaft & crankshaft
oil seals.)
Doing so would have prevented this incident.

George S.

 

[Michael Pardee]

Here is what occurred:
The water pump seized and the water pump shaft broke.
The water pump pulley, now unattached to the pump but still driven by the
timing belt, pressed against the plastic timing belt cover through which
it
neatly wore a hole and protruded outward from.
(It was not an idler pulley that was forced out through the timing belt
cover.)
The car overheated and blew out most of the anti freeze, overflowing the
overflow container onto the ground.

Lessen learned:
Although the timing belt was replaced at 55,869 miles, the water pump was
not.
I understand that it is advisable on vehicles with timing belt driven
water
pumps to replace the water pump when replacing the timing belt.
(Along with all idler and tensioning pulleys and even camshaft &
crankshaft
oil seals.)
Doing so would have prevented this incident.

George S.

Ow! Hate to hear that, George.

I've championed the idea of changing water pumps with the timing belts for
all cars that have a timing-belt driven pump, ever since I read a similar
post in a Volvo group. What a heartbreaker. Some people are just as adamant
about not changing the pump until it fails (even though in many engines it
means all the labor of changing the timing belt anyway), and what can I say?

Mike

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

Ow! Hate to hear that, George.

I've championed the idea of changing water pumps with the timing belts for
all cars that have a timing-belt driven pump, ever since I read a similar
post in a Volvo group. What a heartbreaker. Some people are just as adamant
about not changing the pump until it fails (even though in many engines it
means all the labor of changing the timing belt anyway), and what can I say?

Mike

I once 'cheaped out' and my oldest daughter's Toyota ate a 4K miles old
timing belt. The idler/tensioner bearing seized and burnt through the
belt. I say change every rotating part (except of course crank and cams)
when you change the belt.

Carl

 

[Clamstrippe Fecadunker]

Here is what occurred:
The water pump seized and the water pump shaft broke.
The water pump pulley, now unattached to the pump but still driven by the
timing belt, pressed against the plastic timing belt cover through which it
neatly wore a hole and protruded outward from.
(It was not an idler pulley that was forced out through the timing belt
cover.)
The car overheated and blew out most of the anti freeze, overflowing the
overflow container onto the ground.

Lessen learned:
Although the timing belt was replaced at 55,869 miles, the water pump was
not.
I understand that it is advisable on vehicles with timing belt driven water
pumps to replace the water pump when replacing the timing belt.
(Along with all idler and tensioning pulleys and even camshaft & crankshaft
oil seals.)
Doing so would have prevented this incident.

George S.

wow I did not realize anyone was driving water pumps this way.
I would much rather have an electric water pump! It should be
external to the block too.

 

[Michael Pardee]

I once 'cheaped out' and my oldest daughter's Toyota ate a 4K miles old
timing belt. The idler/tensioner bearing seized and burnt through the
belt. I say change every rotating part (except of course crank and cams)
when you change the belt.

Carl

Thanks for the warning. I was never really sure how important it is to
change the tensioner(s) because it is a slick surface on the smooth part of
the belt. A lot of people say it's no big deal, but anything that affects
the timing belt gives me the willies so I change them out for moderately
priced peace of mind. Of course, a lot of people say changing the water pump
is a waste of money, too. Amazingly, I occasionally see people offering
"good, used" water pumps cheap. Oh, the humanity....

Mike

 

[Michael Pardee]

wow I did not realize anyone was driving water pumps this way.
I would much rather have an electric water pump! It should be
external to the block too.

Yes - it is very common. I have known two people who had timing belt
failures before the first scheduled timing belt change (and just after the
standard new car warranty ran out!) on Ford Escorts because the water pump
siezed. Very sad indeed, since both were still making payments on the cars.

For years water pumps were driven by V-belts, then by serpentines. I think
the attraction of timing belt driven pumps is that the pump is guaranteed to
turn whenever the engine is turning, which is almost as important as the oil
pump turning for modern engines. The shaft can be kept short because the
timing belt is always right nearby, which means less side-load problems for
the shaft. The timing belt tension is also fairly controlled, which gives
better control of the side-load. The pumps are set into the block because
the coolant flow can be maximized and the number of places it can leak are
minimized - those short hoses that used to connect water pumps never got
changed if the far end was less accessible than the pump end.

Still, I agree it is something that waits to bite the unwary mighty hard.

Mike

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

Thanks for the warning. I was never really sure how important it is to
change the tensioner(s) because it is a slick surface on the smooth part of
the belt. A lot of people say it's no big deal, but anything that affects
the timing belt gives me the willies so I change them out for moderately
priced peace of mind. Of course, a lot of people say changing the water pump
is a waste of money, too. Amazingly, I occasionally see people offering
"good, used" water pumps cheap. Oh, the humanity....

Mike

Well, it's a risk. But I was halfway to a function we had paid money to
attend, out of town, with my middle daughter in the car when it
happened. Just barely able to coast off the highway. had to get a tow,
rent a car, find a mechanic, blah-blah. Never again.

Carl

 

[Michael Pardee]

On 2006-03-01 13:01:35 -0800, "George S." <(e-mail address removed)> said:
wow I did not realize anyone was driving water pumps this way.
I would much rather have an electric water pump! It should be
external to the block too.

I did a quick Google and found this thread, "Cars That Failed To Reach
125,000 miles" on Edmunds. One post, which listed a long sad litany of US
makes, included:
"1982 Ford Escort hatchback. Baby blue. 62000 miles Water pump seized ,
which ripped the teeth off the timing belt which crashed the valves into the
pistons... you get the idea."

Don't misunderstand - this is by no means unique to Ford engines. I just
have encountered that more than I have similar problems with other engines.

Mike

 

[Michael Pardee]

Well, it's a risk. But I was halfway to a function we had paid money to
attend, out of town, with my middle daughter in the car when it happened.
Just barely able to coast off the highway. had to get a tow, rent a car,
find a mechanic, blah-blah. Never again.

Carl

I understand. Our '85 Volvo has a non-interference engine, and some people
who have the same vintage take the stance that they can just wait until the
belt fails rather than change it early to prevent failure. My view is that
when we are in our car with the engine running we want to go somewhere, and
if we just let things like that go sooner or later we are guaranteed to at
least be late to wherever we are going. Add towing, having to fix it without
a schedule, taxi, rental, all the hassles of this happening on the road, and
it doesn't look attractive to me.

Mike

 

[Brian W. Gamble]

For what it's worth:

When our dealer changes the timing belt and water pump, he also changes the
front crankshaft seal. The cost is almost zero compared to the time required
to do the seal at a later date.

And after five Subarus, every bloody water pump that came out with a timing
belt was starting to leak from the seal drain. Which means that every bloody
water pump was about to eat it's bearings, and that never works to our
advantage ;-(

Regards,
Brian Gamble
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada