'89 GL 3-door Coupe Power Windows

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

OK, once again I am crossing due to the wealth of knowledge available
across the boards...

My '89 Suby 3-dr coupe's passenger side window would not work. I know when
I looked at the car, the pass window would go DOWN from the driver's side,
but not up. From the passenger's side, it would work.

I got the car here last week, and just went to lok at it today. No Go on
the pass side window, from either side. I took the panel off, and the
regulator had been removed from the door and was just flopping, and the
window was held up by a piece of wood.

I set everything back normal...No Go. After some quick troubleshooting
with a meter, I found voltage going to the switch, but not FROM the
switch, and no ground.

I made an educated guess that the white wire with the black stripe was
ground, ran a jumper from that point to the door frame, et voila...window
goes up and down from the passenger's side of the car. But not so from the
driver's side. There is no operation whatsoever from the driver's side
switch.

I have a suspicion that the white/black wire is still the culprit. Can
someone give me an idea what I'm looking for here...

 

[EdV]

What happens when you bypass the switch and short the wires directly
on the driver side

 

[johninKY]

Take the switches apart and you will likely discover the contacts are
burnt. A good cleaning almost always will get the windows working.

A little difficult to explain but there is no dedicated ground wire if
that makes sense. The window goes up because the electric motor spins in
one direction and goes down because it spins in the other. This is
accomplushed by switching the polarity in the 2 wires. Remember there is
only 2 wires going to the motors.

If eg one of the wires is hot when the window is raised, it will become
the ground when the window is lowered. What switches the wire polarity is
the switch.

Just clean the contacts and you will be a happy camper.

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

What happens when you bypass the switch and short the wires directly on
the driver side

I haven't removed the driver's side panel yet. By the time I got it
working on the pass. side it was time to give up and go to bed, so I'm
going to have a look at the other side today.

Basically, I was wondering if anyone had encountered this before, like a
common thing, or if there are any 'peculiarities' I should be aware of!

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

OK, once again I am crossing due to the wealth of knowledge available
across the boards...

My '89 Suby 3-dr coupe's passenger side window would not work. I know when
I looked at the car, the pass window would go DOWN from the driver's side,
but not up. From the passenger's side, it would work.

I guess I should clarify my question a bit. What I'm lacking in
understanding is, how does the driver's side switch control the
passenger's side window? It doesn't appear to be a direct connection to
the motor, so it has to go to the switch.

On the pass side switch, there are 5 wires: Red/Pink,+12V; White/blk,
GND; Blue/Cyan,(down or up); Blue/GRN (down or up); and another blue wire.
I'll have to take a better look; I was concentrating on just getting the
thing put back together and working yesterday. But it seems to me that the
unaccounted for blue wire must be the Down from the driver's switch, and
that the Up connection is missing...

 

[johninKY]

If this was my problem i would go immediately to the 2 switches and clean
the contacts found within. Granted the switched could not be the problem
but 9 times out of ten they are.

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

If this was my problem i would go immediately to the 2 switches and clean
the contacts found within. Granted the switched could not be the problem
but 9 times out of ten they are.

The same as on a Toyota...

 

[Nick Bourne]

I guess I should clarify my question a bit. What I'm lacking in
understanding is, how does the driver's side switch control the
passenger's side window? It doesn't appear to be a direct connection to
the motor, so it has to go to the switch.

On the pass side switch, there are 5 wires: Red/Pink,+12V; White/blk,
GND; Blue/Cyan,(down or up); Blue/GRN (down or up); and another blue wire.
I'll have to take a better look; I was concentrating on just getting the
thing put back together and working yesterday. But it seems to me that the
unaccounted for blue wire must be the Down from the driver's switch, and
that the Up connection is missing...

If it is a factory fit then in the wiring harness there will be wires
that run from the drivers side to the passenger side that splice into
the up/down wires. If they are aftermarket it may not be connected at
all(seems that way by the wiring you suggested), but if it is there will
be a splice into the up/down wires somewhere along the line. The extra
blue wire is most likely meant to be hooked up to the dash light circuit
to make the switch light up.

FYI the switches work by earthing out both up/down wires then when you
push the switch it disconnects the earth from one wire and connects it
to power. In a master-slave situation the slave switch up/down wires are
earthed back to the master switch so that when the master switch is
working it sends the power through the slave switch then to the motor.


Power Power
_____________ | __________________ |
/ \ | / \ |
Motor Slave Master___ Earth
\______________/ | \__________________/ |
| |
Light Light

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

If it is a factory fit then in the wiring harness there will be wires that
run from the drivers side to the passenger side that splice into the
up/down wires. If they are aftermarket it may not be connected at
all(seems that way by the wiring you suggested), but if it is there will
be a splice into the up/down wires somewhere along the line. The extra
blue wire is most likely meant to be hooked up to the dash light circuit
to make the switch light up.

FYI the switches work by earthing out both up/down wires then when you
push the switch it disconnects the earth from one wire and connects it to
power. In a master-slave situation the slave switch up/down wires are
earthed back to the master switch so that when the master switch is
working it sends the power through the slave switch then to the motor.


Power Power
_____________ | __________________ |
/ \ | / \ |
Motor Slave Master___ Earth
\______________/ | \__________________/ |
| |
Light Light

Nice drawing! Makes it clearer. I'll check it out later if it doesn't hit
over 100 degrees again today...if not, Friday is supposed to be in the
mid-70's (makes working outside SO much nicer!)

Earth, eh? In 1976 I had a Volvo 1800ES 'estate wagon', based on the
p1800E sports car. Cool little wagon.

The Tach said "Smiths" above the needle mount and "Negative Earth" below
it. It wasn't until a couple years later when I went to Electronics school
that it finally hit me it meant Negative GROUND!

But I thought it was so cool that we named our band Negative Earth...

 

[Nick Bourne]

Nice drawing! Makes it clearer. I'll check it out later if it doesn't hit
over 100 degrees again today...if not, Friday is supposed to be in the
mid-70's (makes working outside SO much nicer!)

Earth, eh? In 1976 I had a Volvo 1800ES 'estate wagon', based on the
p1800E sports car. Cool little wagon.

The Tach said "Smiths" above the needle mount and "Negative Earth" below
it. It wasn't until a couple years later when I went to Electronics school
that it finally hit me it meant Negative GROUND!

But I thought it was so cool that we named our band Negative Earth...

Sorry I come from the criminal colonies were the British taught us to
speak. I think it comes from the original DC power grid where you got
one wire in and 6 foot steel rod driven into the earth out the back. I
can't get my head around the whole AC wiring thing of active and
neutral. If you touch either it give you a shock, can't see what's so
neutral about it.

 

[Bruce L. Bergman]

One note - the slave switch is supposed to put both lines through to
the traveler wires to the Master switch except when it's being thrown,
so the master switch can run the window. If you have a "Window War"
between the passenger and driver the slave switch will win, because
it's closer to the motor.

Sorry I come from the criminal colonies were the British taught us to
speak. I think it comes from the original DC power grid where you got
one wire in and 6 foot steel rod driven into the earth out the back. I
can't get my head around the whole AC wiring thing of active and
neutral. If you touch either it give you a shock, can't see what's so
neutral about it.

If it's built right, over here they bond the neutral wires and the
safety earth ground wires at the power service panel on the house.
Sometimes it's all one large bussbar in the service panel.

You can't get shocked on the neutral IF it's properly connected,
there's maybe two to five volts there above ground, due to wire
resistance.

Now if you open the neutral wire and still have a load connected at
the far end, the 120V or 240V power coming back through the neutral
trying to find it's way back to the panel is there to bite you...

Over there in Oz, all bets are off. There are many ways to wire up
power systems that have no earthed conductors, and there are people
who claim leaving it floating is safer... (And I am not one of them.)

--<< Bruce >>--

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

Sorry I come from the criminal colonies were the British taught us to
speak. I think it comes from the original DC power grid where you got one
wire in and 6 foot steel rod driven into the earth out the back. I can't
get my head around the whole AC wiring thing of active and neutral. If you
touch either it give you a shock, can't see what's so neutral about it.

I was in electronics for 19 years...

I don't get it either...

 

[Michael Pardee]

Sorry I come from the criminal colonies were the British taught us to
speak. I think it comes from the original DC power grid where you got one
wire in and 6 foot steel rod driven into the earth out the back. I can't
get my head around the whole AC wiring thing of active and neutral. If you
touch either it give you a shock, can't see what's so neutral about it.

I'm not sure how wiring standards are there, but here in Yank-land the
modern standard uses three wires for single phase (120 volt) wiring. Only
one, the "hot" lead (I think there's a formal name for it but it isn't
coming to mind), will produce a shock under normal conditions. The other
two, neutral and ground (safety ground), are connected together at the power
distribution point - in homes and similar, that's the circuit breaker panel.
The current in the hot and neutral wires must balance; ground current
indicates a fault.

It is never wise to bet one's life on it, though. At work we recently began
auditing the low voltage wiring in our substations (I work for an electric
utility) and found some amazing sorts of miswiring. And recently my wife and
I stayed in a hotel room (a mid-scale chain hotel) where turning on the hall
light tripped the GFI breaker in the bathroom. Hmm....

Mike

 

[Nick Bourne]

I'm not sure how wiring standards are there, but here in Yank-land the
modern standard uses three wires for single phase (120 volt) wiring. Only
one, the "hot" lead (I think there's a formal name for it but it isn't
coming to mind), will produce a shock under normal conditions. The other
two, neutral and ground (safety ground), are connected together at the power
distribution point - in homes and similar, that's the circuit breaker panel.
The current in the hot and neutral wires must balance; ground current
indicates a fault.

It is never wise to bet one's life on it, though. At work we recently began
auditing the low voltage wiring in our substations (I work for an electric
utility) and found some amazing sorts of miswiring. And recently my wife and
I stayed in a hotel room (a mid-scale chain hotel) where turning on the hall
light tripped the GFI breaker in the bathroom. Hmm....

Mike

I'm not sure exactly how its wired here most of our houses have an earth
pole and two wires going out to the pole for single phase power, but it
seems kind of strange to have the earth hooked up to the neutral. We
run 240v so it might be different. what the point of the earth if its
connected to the neutral. it seems to me that it is a possible way of
getting zapped if any other appliance in the house is on. All I
definitely know is that we only fuse the active (Any scientific
instrument I have seen built in the states has a link across the second
fuse), and even if the power point is turn off you will still get zapped
if you stuck anything in it.

 

[Michael Pardee]

I'm not sure exactly how its wired here most of our houses have an earth
pole and two wires going out to the pole for single phase power, but it
seems kind of strange to have the earth hooked up to the neutral. We run
240v so it might be different. what the point of the earth if its
connected to the neutral. it seems to me that it is a possible way of
getting zapped if any other appliance in the house is on. All I definitely
know is that we only fuse the active (Any scientific instrument I have
seen built in the states has a link across the second fuse), and even if
the power point is turn off you will still get zapped if you stuck
anything in it.

That would be different. 240 is what we call two-phase here but I suspect we
wire it differently. Our 240 is four wire: two "hot" phases, a neutral that
is 120V to either phase and at ground potential, and a safety ground. The
safety ground is what is normally expected to prevent shock from touching
appliances, although smaller devices (like power tools) are typically just
insulated from ground. (The standard is "double-insulated" but I don't see
what protects the user if both insulations fail.)

I confess I don't know anything about power standards outside the US.

Mike