04 Outback 2.5 engine Oil problem

[Wilo]

I have bought a new Outback 2.5 Premium and have done only 8,000kms. I
checked the oil and found NOTHING on the dipstick.

I took it in to Subaru Doncaster on Monday morning and they told me "We have
been having problems with the new engines." And that "I was lucky that I
checked it." They put 2.5 litres of oil in to fill it, it only holds just
under 5. The "Official" first service isn't until 12,500kms, and I was
supposed to be told that I should keep an eye on the oil level when I bought
it.

The oil light never came on.

While I was there, they told me that they have a Liberty 2.5 that was
brought in for a rattle in the exhaust. The truth is that the engine is
stuffed. It ran out of oil.

Has anybody else come across this, and what should I do?

Mark.

 

[Watson]

I make it a habit of check all fluids when I pick up a new car. I know, its
brand new, but you can see what happens

 

[Holly Wood]

New generation 2.5i in Liberty/Outback can use some oil at initial break in,
I know of an Outback that blew its engine at just over 10,000 kms after
running out of oil. If yours needed 2.5l it may not have done too much
damage.

My 2.5i Liberty has done 9,000km and i have added only 0.5l

 

[Edward Hayes]

Sounds like BS to me. The dealer pre-delivery inspection should check all
fluids and top up and you should have checked the oil and other fluid level
regularly. ed

 

[Wilo]

What I found strange is, when I first got it home, all fluids were fine.
I agree I should have checked it often, but I thought, new car, Full of oil,
no leaks in the driveway, no problem!
I expected a little oil to be used during run in but 2.5 litres? That's just
insane!

My new Suzuki DL1000 bike, never used any oil, and the oil is the same
colour as new.
What's the story with Subaru, considering Bike engines rev and work harder
than cars?

Mark

 

[Rick Courtright]

What I found strange is, when I first got it home, all fluids were fine.
I agree I should have checked it often, but I thought, new car, Full of oil,

Wilo,

My first thought on reading your original post was "what happened, you
break your arm and can't open the bonnet to check your oil?" 8,000 km
and you haven't checked it? I'll let you beat yourself up on that bit of
neglect and abuse!

But chastising people does no good, so let's look at the nuts and bolts
of what's going on. ALL ENGINES USE OIL. PERIOD. Yes, it's true, some
use very little, so let's not waste bandwidth with "my ____ engine never
uses a drop" kind of posts, but they still need to be checked regularly.
I don't know what your owners manual says, but mine says to check every
time you fill the tank, or once a week. Make it a habit!

Next thing, ALL NEW ENGINES USE MORE OIL UNTIL THEY'RE BROKEN IN.
PERIOD. The actual rate of consumption on your engine, assuming it was
full to the mark when you took delivery, isn't all that bad for a new
engine. Yes, it's true, some don't seem to use any while being broken
in, but again the engine should be checked regularly. Once every 8,000
km is not a responsible "regular" schedule. I'd think every 500 km is
reasonable if you wish to use a "distance" test, but prefer "every
Sunday" or similar for my own use.

Why do some Subies seem to use more oil than others when new? Hard to
say, since there are so many variables. What oil does the factory use?
If it's a thin "break in" oil (lots of discussion in the past on whether
this is the case) it will burn off quickly. The type of piston rings and
material used can affect the break in time. Softer rings, which were
common with many Japanese makes for years, break in almost instantly,
but don't wear as long. Harder rings take longer to seat (I've seen
engines that took over 20k miles--32k km) so initial oil consumption
will be higher. Weather conditions affect all this, with hotter weather
causing more rapid consumption. Driving style has its affects, and on
and on.

So all in all, it's up to the driver to pay attention! I hope you didn't
teach yourself an expensive lesson. While it's true there MAY be a
problem with the current engine design (not unusual since mfrs "fix what
ain't broke" all too often, e.g. the piston slap problem), regular
attention to fluid levels will do far more for the longevity of your
engine than anything Subaru does.

Good luck!

Rick

 

[Woody]

I have bought a new Outback 2.5 Premium and have done only 8,000kms. I
checked the oil and found NOTHING on the dipstick.

I took it in to Subaru Doncaster on Monday morning and they told me "We have
been having problems with the new engines." And that "I was lucky that I
checked it." They put 2.5 litres of oil in to fill it, it only holds just
under 5. The "Official" first service isn't until 12,500kms, and I was
supposed to be told that I should keep an eye on the oil level when I bought
it.

The oil light never came on.

While I was there, they told me that they have a Liberty 2.5 that was
brought in for a rattle in the exhaust. The truth is that the engine is
stuffed. It ran out of oil.

Has anybody else come across this, and what should I do?

Mark.

Our new '04 Forester XS has used so little oil in the 1st 2,200 miles
that it is not discernable on the dip stick.

Our old '98 Forester with 120,000 miles on it used a quart in about
5,000 miles.

With the global price of crude oil so high, maybe there are midnight
oil thieves operating in your area.


Woody; 95FXDS

 

[Edward Hayes]

My 2000 2.5L engine used about 1/2 quart before the recommended 3,000 miles
oil change. I checked it every gas tank fill up though. 8,000 Km = ~ 5,000
miles so I guess you were not to interested in your vehicle.

 

[Tony Hwang]

I have bought a new Outback 2.5 Premium and have done only 8,000kms. I
checked the oil and found NOTHING on the dipstick.

I took it in to Subaru Doncaster on Monday morning and they told me "We have
been having problems with the new engines." And that "I was lucky that I
checked it." They put 2.5 litres of oil in to fill it, it only holds just
under 5. The "Official" first service isn't until 12,500kms, and I was
supposed to be told that I should keep an eye on the oil level when I bought
it.

The oil light never came on.

While I was there, they told me that they have a Liberty 2.5 that was
brought in for a rattle in the exhaust. The truth is that the engine is
stuffed. It ran out of oil.

Has anybody else come across this, and what should I do?

Mark.

Hi,
That sounds like BS on beehalf of the dealer. They suppose to go through
everything before the vehicle is delivered.
What kind of operation does your delaer do? No pre-delivery preparation?
Can't believe it!
Tony

 

[Rick Courtright]

Can't believe it!

Tony,

Did you read the part where he went 8,000 kms WITHOUT checking his oil?
Subaru (or any other auto mfr) can't hold the owners' hands--they're
responsible for routine maintenance, which includes checking oil. Had he
gone on and blown an engine, how far do you think he'd have gotten with
a warranty claim?

Rick

 

[inconceivable]

I recommend you write the dealer and subaru to get it on record what
happened. Let them know that you are happy with their product but that they
"need to know" what you found. They WILL respond and then you have proof
that at least they acknowledged your complaint. This worked for me when the
subie dealer replaced my tranny fluid 1 year or 13000 miles early. I was
refunded. If anything happens down the road you will have documentation.

Good luck.

DJay

 

[Tony Hwang]

Tony Hwang wrote:




Tony,

Did you read the part where he went 8,000 kms WITHOUT checking his oil?
Subaru (or any other auto mfr) can't hold the owners' hands--they're
responsible for routine maintenance, which includes checking oil. Had he
gone on and blown an engine, how far do you think he'd have gotten with
a warranty claim?

Rick

Hi,
What kind of car is using so much oil after 8K Km? I have 5 vehicles in
my family in daily use. None use that much oil when new or old.
Currently two Subaru are in the family fleet.
Did he check oil on level ground after engine is cooled down?
If nothing registered on the dip stick, the engine must have been sezied
or on the verge of it. Been driving 50 years of all kinds of vehicles.
Only time I got oil related problem was when I had a hole punched by a
rock on oil pan. Still managed to stop the car and prevented the engine
damage.
Tony

 

[Rick Courtright]

What kind of car is using so much oil after 8K Km? I have 5 vehicles in
my family in daily use. None use that much oil when new or old.

As I said in my original post, let's not waste bandwidth with "my ____
engine never uses any oil." Every engine's different, and while many
will argue, 2.5l in 8k kms on a new engine's NOT a lot of oil. If you do
a bit of research, I believe you'll find that few, if any, manufacturers
consider oil consumption of less than 1 qt/1000 miles to be excessive.
(Just for comparison, I don't know what their current standards are, but
for years VW and Porsche actually considered up to 1 qt/450 miles to be
"normal"--and this in their water-cooled engines, not the "looser"
air-cooled units!) I don't know why the OP's engine used as much as it
seemingly did (considering ~most~ of today's engines do use very little)
but it doesn't matter. Failure to check the oil per the book (at every
fillup, each week, whatever is recommended) and top up as required
constitutes neglect/abuse on the part of the owner. Period.

I'm NOT saying there might not be something wrong with his engine. But
how's he gonna document and prove it with such sloppy attention to
detail? I don't see that he's made much of a case for himself so far...

Rick

 

[Wilo]

Rick,
I agree, I should have checked things more often.
It's easy to build up km's though, as I travel about 300-500km per weekend.
The km's have been harder than usual because I tow motorbikes out the bush
to go riding.

I originally posted to find out if anybody else had similar findings and to
warn others of possible problems, so they wouldn't make the same mistake I
did.

I've spoken to Subaru here is Australia and to my surprise they have
replaced multiple engines under warranty because of this issue. The pamphlet
I spoke of, in the first line actually says

"Refinement of modern engines can lead people into a false sense of security
that fluid levels, particularly oil, do not need checking. In fact they do."

This is where I got caught. I was of the assumption that if serviced at the
required intervals I shouldn't have a problem. Further to that I found that
the current oil light/pressure sensor only comes on if there is 0.5ltrs or
less in the engine, and engines have blown just getting them to the service
centres.
Apparently here in Australia they are arguing with Japan to have oil level
sensors installed. To stop this problem, and to give people earlier warning
if something does go wrong.

Mark

 

[Woody]

My 2000 2.5L engine used about 1/2 quart before the recommended 3,000 miles
oil change. I checked it every gas tank fill up though. 8,000 Km = ~ 5,000
miles so I guess you were not to interested in your vehicle.

I fail to see how your comment about not being interested in our
vehicle has any relation to my post or to reality. I don't have any
problem with our vehicle and we check our fluids on a regular basis.
Maybe you were not paying any attention to whose post you were
replying to seeing that you were also careless enough to "top post".


Woody; 95FXDS

 

[Ian Brown]

Here in the UK, you can now fail your driving test for not knowing how to
check your oil level.

http://www.theaa.com/aboutaa/features/fea_drivingtest_sept2003.html

 

[Tony Hwang]

Here in the UK, you can now fail your driving test for not knowing how to
check your oil level.

http://www.theaa.com/aboutaa/features/fea_drivingtest_sept2003.html

Hi,
Very good. In Italy too. We need more drivers on the road not motor
vehicle operators. In Canada getting a driver's licence is a joke!
Tony

 

[CompUser]

@news.optusnet.com.au>, (e-mail address removed)
says...

I have bought a new Outback 2.5 Premium and have done only 8,000kms. I
checked the oil and found NOTHING on the dipstick.

I took it in to Subaru Doncaster on Monday morning and they told me "We have
been having problems with the new engines." And that "I was lucky that I
checked it." They put 2.5 litres of oil in to fill it, it only holds just
under 5.

Has anybody else come across this, and what should I do?

Yikes!!

What you should do is keep that service order,
that says you bought it in low, and they added
2.5 litres to bring it up to level, and never,
ever lose that piece of paper...and if they
didn't give one that says that, get one.

 

[Shane White]

Wilo - how goes your engine? Any oil usage, damage or news?
Shane (Aus).